Your argument is a strawman.
I said that they are potentially dangerous, not knowing if they have been sufficiently safety tested (or not).
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Tesla Supercharger is an illegal monopoly
- Thread starter Mockingbird
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I said that they are potentially dangerous, not knowing if they have been sufficiently safety tested (or not).
This is total crap. Anyone that wants to use those horrible unreliable EA stations or any other non Tesla station can just buy any non Tesla vehicle.
There is no monopoly here.
That is a good point. I have not read of any damage reports.
So what you saying is that, if I am in Minot, ND, I should only charge from level 2 chargers even though there are non-Tesla DCFCs there.
No if you want to torture yourself and use these garbage EA stations you can buy one of these adapters.
"New" Sources of Tesla 'OEM,' Tesla-like, and/or Third-Party CCS1 Adapters
"New" Sources of Tesla 'OEM,' Tesla-like, and/or Third-Party CCS1 Adapters
Ciaopec
Active Member
OP is like a troll. Why keep feeding him. He is firmly convinced the network is an illegal monopoly. Let them prove that in a court of law. Otherwise this is torture to watch. Can to; can not. Is too; is not. Says who; says me. It's mine; no it isn't . Blah blah blah
In the real world, the court of law means: who can afford the best lawyers.OP is like a troll. Why keep feeding him. He is firmly convinced the network is an illegal monopoly. Let them prove that in a court of law. Otherwise this is torture to watch. Can to; can not. Is too; is not. Says who; says me. It's mine; no it isn't . Blah blah blah
...and Tesla can sure afford much better lawyers than I can
Ciaopec
Active Member
I'm not sure you're winning here with no lawyers. It's like someone who likes to hear themselves talk.
...and there are no judges and justices here in this forum
This would be like arguing Samsung has a monopoly on TVs because their Operating system is proprietary, and some specific application someone wanted only ran on the samsung TV Operating system.
No one is forcing anyone to buy tesla vehicles (there are other choices in EVs
No one is forcing anyone to charge at a supercharger. Unlike a gas car, which has no real way to install "A pump" at home, EVs can be charged at home.
The argument appears to be "Tesla is not selling an adapter in north america so that I can easily fast charge at other stations, this makes it a monopoloy". It would make more sense if the only way to fuel the vehicles at all was a tesla supercharger (it isnt), and there were no other choices in the marketplace for a different vehicle (there are).
With that being said, as I said earlier, this is very (very) obviously a "Lets get the conversation going!!!!" post.
No one is forcing anyone to buy tesla vehicles (there are other choices in EVs
No one is forcing anyone to charge at a supercharger. Unlike a gas car, which has no real way to install "A pump" at home, EVs can be charged at home.
The argument appears to be "Tesla is not selling an adapter in north america so that I can easily fast charge at other stations, this makes it a monopoloy". It would make more sense if the only way to fuel the vehicles at all was a tesla supercharger (it isnt), and there were no other choices in the marketplace for a different vehicle (there are).
With that being said, as I said earlier, this is very (very) obviously a "Lets get the conversation going!!!!" post.
A monopoly usually requires that the company has >60% of the market share.
Samsung has a market share of 19.8% of TVs.
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This is a good point. I looked it up and in my area, EA sites are $0.01/kWh cheaper than Tesla‘s supercharger sites. I also found a couple of free sites (neither Tesla, nor EA).
A 1 penny difference doesn’t seem to support monopolistic pricing power. And Tesla is still cheaper than many others, and more reliable.
Perhaps you would prefer a larger survey?
J.D. Power 2022 EV Study Ranks Tesla as #1 DC Fast Charger Brand
J.D. Power has released their 2022 J.D. Power U.S. Electric Vehicle Experience (EVX) Public Charging Study, which states that among 11,554 owners of battery electric vehicles (BEVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) surveyed: "Tesla Destination ranks highest among Level 2 charging...
teslamotorsclub.com
In some cases, Electrify America is much cheaper.This is a good point. I looked it up and in my area, EA sites are $0.01/kWh cheaper than Tesla‘s supercharger sites. I also found a couple of free sites (neither Tesla, nor EA).
A 1 penny difference doesn’t seem to support monopolistic pricing power. And Tesla is still cheaper than many others, and more reliable.
Perhaps you would prefer a larger survey?
J.D. Power 2022 EV Study Ranks Tesla as #1 DC Fast Charger Brand
J.D. Power has released their 2022 J.D. Power U.S. Electric Vehicle Experience (EVX) Public Charging Study, which states that among 11,554 owners of battery electric vehicles (BEVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) surveyed: "Tesla Destination ranks highest among Level 2 charging...
Regardless, the issue is Tesla preventing Tesla drivers from fast charging elsewhere other than the Supercharger.
Your point is a good one but seems to then go off about having to purchase another vehicle. Where I live, Tesla SuperChargers are as high as 55c kwh during day hours vs. CCS Fast Chargers at 30c kwh 24 hrs per day. I purchased a new 2022 Tesla with CCS capability vs my old one which does not. But Tesla won't provide me with an adapter. I did buy another EV, but your point is it should be something other than a Tesla? But Tesla indicated my car will Fast Charge at a CCS Fast Charger. I take long trips monthly. It cannot use CCS due at nearly half the price, due to Teslas latest inhibitor. They sell it in S Korea but restrict US shipment
And then there was Elons tweet about SuperCharging never being a profit center. We now know it has a 10% profit target.
Monopolistic no. Fraudulent Marketing, yes. Ethical business practice, defintely not. Customer oriented, most definitely not.
Let's use this example of monopolization from the FTC's website:
In the same way, Tesla is using its dominant position in the BEV market to make it difficult to use other fast charging networks with Tesla vehicles.
In the same way, Tesla is using its dominant position in the BEV market to make it difficult to use other fast charging networks with Tesla vehicles.
There is a large number of alternative vehicles that are cheaper and which have much better refueling infrastructure. Most people I know have one of those.
I'm also surprised as the suggestion of a BEV monopoly given that I bought a different one, I have colleagues with BEVs and none has a Tesla, one has a non-Tesla on order and friends who are considering BEVs aren't planning on getting Teslas either.
Worst. Monopoly. Ever.
Tesla is, in fact, a monopoly in the BEV market.
Now, being a monopoly in itself is not illegal.
Rather, abusing a monopoly is illegal.
Making it difficult to fast charge at non-Tesla chargers would most certainly be illegal and is similar to the example given by the FTC's website.
richrootes
Member
Wow
Most straightforward ‘ignore’ ever
Most straightforward ‘ignore’ ever
Actually the patents have been made open for all of this -- no auto manufacturers chose to use it. Also, EVgo has Tesla connectors at their DCFC's provided by using a hard-installed CHaDeMO adapter. Paging Uncle Pennybags!
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