Example from the FTC's website:
Also, Tesla bundles a navigation system in every (modern) Tesla vehicle that automatically navigates to the Supercharger instead of other fast chargers.
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Tesla Supercharger is an illegal monopoly
- Thread starter Mockingbird
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Also, Tesla bundles a navigation system in every (modern) Tesla vehicle that automatically navigates to the Supercharger instead of other fast chargers.
See post #32. I do not WANT Tesla's grubby hands and buggy software telling me where third party DC fast chargers are.
As long as ECUs and at least third party CCS adapters are available (and they are), then there isn't a problem. Tesla doesn't even include a basic EVSE with the car anymore. If you have enough money to buy a Tesla but you are too cheap to buy a $200-300 adapter, then the problem is you, not Tesla.
Also, I'm not sure why you aren't going after Chevy. They prevent anyone from fast charging their Bolt models that don't include fast charging capabilities at all. Can't even buy an adapter to do it.
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This topic has gone on for five pages too long. It feels like someone is testing new troll bot AI to validate its ability to keep an irrelevant topic going for as long as possible. 
This has been fun, but I'm out. There are much more useful, interesting, and meaningful conversations to be had elsewhere in TMC. This one has become a mockery.
Have a great day everyone!
This has been fun, but I'm out. There are much more useful, interesting, and meaningful conversations to be had elsewhere in TMC. This one has become a mockery.
Have a great day everyone!
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
When the Model S was revealed in 2009, there were less than 500 EV charging stations in the USA, and 95% of them were in California.
It seems to me that the 3rd party DCFC suppliers are the actual monopolists, since they refused to include a Tesla connector!
It seems to me that the 3rd party DCFC suppliers are the actual monopolists, since they refused to include a Tesla connector!
Read the FTC's example of Microsoft.
Tesla makes it difficult to fast charge elsewhere other than the Supercharger.
Yes, as you point out it is difficult, but not impossible.
I could fly to South Korea to buy an official adapter or buy one of the potentially unsafe 3rd party adapters. I could also buy a ChargePort ECU from eBay, etc.
According to FTC, making it difficult (but not impossible) to charge elsewhere other than the Supercharger would be abusing a monopoly.
The Tesla Proprietary Connector (TPC) is proprietary.
Tesla would have to license the TPC to the DCFC suppliers.
Buying a 3rd party adapter or getting one through Harumio is not difficult. It took me about 10 minutes to do and the vast majority of that was setting up a dummy account for Harumio to login to.
You haven't provided any evidence that any 3rd party adapter is unsafe. Link us to an article where someone shows that their charge port melted or the adapter caught on fire and I'll concede this part of the argument.
You can buy a chargeport ECU through official Tesla channels even in the US. Which is exactly how my friend with the 2018 M3 got his. He walked straight into an official Tesla service center, and walked out with a new ECU. That doesn't sound like something a company that wanted to prevent people from fast charging its cars anywhere except at superchargers would do.
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and third-party adapters are potentially unsafe
Your argument is a strawman.
I said that 3rd party adapters are potentially unsafe, as in, they might not have gone through sufficient safety testing.
Nowhere did I claim that they will catch on fire. They could, but nowhere did I claim that they would.
This is no official information about this.
What you have is anecdotal evidence.
Just because your friend was able to do so doesn't mean everyone else would.
I already reported this thread for being straight up lies in the entire premise. You realize that it only takes one counterexample to prove your absolute statement premise false, don't you? I used an official Tesla OEM car with an official Tesla OEM adapter, both of which I bought directly from the standard official www.tesla.com website to charge at a DC fast charging station on our trip to Disneyland last year. No weird gray market tricks to get it.
It took about 7 tries to get the buggy, broken-ass station in McDermitt, NV to actually activate and start charging though. So it was really the other network who was trying to prevent me from using their network--not Tesla. End of thread.
It took about 7 tries to get the buggy, broken-ass station in McDermitt, NV to actually activate and start charging though. So it was really the other network who was trying to prevent me from using their network--not Tesla. End of thread.
Please provide the link to the official North America Tesla website where one can get the Tesla CCS1 adapter.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Not by any definition of the word I've ever heard.
There are plenty of definitions, but they're all some version of "the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service."
Tesla is nowhere near having exclusive possession or control of the supply or electric vehicles in the US or the world. There are currently 32 BEVs for sale in the US from TWENTY different makes. Significant market share on its own is not a monopoly.
You keep using the Microsoft/IE anti-trust case as some weird substantiation for your argument - In the early 2000s Microsoft controlled 94% of the personal computer OS market. They had ONE commercial competitor with 3% of the market. THAT is a monopoly.
If you don't like Tesla's charging infrastructure support, you have 19 other brands selling 28 different BEVs to choose from. Again - that's not a monopoly by any reasonable definition of the term.
That's like saying: If you don't Microsoft's monopoly, just switch from Windows to Linux.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Still no.
If you don't see the difference between controlling 60% of the market (and dropping) when there are 20 entrants and controlling 94% of the market when there are three, I don't think there's much more to discuss here.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Are you actually presenting the fact that Tesla's market share has dropped from ~75% in March to ~61% in August as evidence to support your claim of an illegal monopoly?
That's an interesting tactic.
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