Tesla Supercharger network

[bonnie]

So you're just writing off any potential customers that live in apartments or don't otherwise own a domicile where they can install a 40amp socket?

I agree with Lloyd. If the superchargers are totally consumed by those living locally, then it kind of negates the whole reason for installing the supercharger network. Many apartment dwellers have successfully gotten chargers installed. Besides, I guarantee that there will then be someone upset because they charge at home and Tesla isn't giving them free charging. And people upset that others are hogging the chargers, ruining their trip.

The idea was to make it possible for people to drive distances, to make range anxiety a non-issue.

 

[Lloyd]

I like the idea. People will still get upset later though:smile: Make the fee nominal though.

I agree nominal, but enough to make it economically advantageous to charge at home, say ~2X normal electrical cost at peak.

 

[ahimberg]

a 'fee' wouldn't always work, if you are going on a long trip, if the spacing of the superchargers is such that you have to fill up at one to make it to the next, you will likely need it to get home or to jump onto the super highway, unless you're within like 20 miles of one

 

[Lloyd]

a 'fee' wouldn't always work, if you are going on a long trip, if the spacing of the superchargers is such that you have to fill up at one to make it to the next, you will likely need it to get home or to jump onto the super highway, unless you're within like 20 miles of one

Yes I thought of that also, but I wouldn't mind paying once in awhile to make the network more available for those that are actually traveling distance!

 

[kevincwelch]

I have a suggestion for Tesla: Supercharging should be "prohibited, or for a fee" within a certain distance from your home. This will prevent owners from supercharging to save a few $$ in their normal charging regimin which should be done at home, and keep the superchargers available for those that need them while traveling.

As a consumer, this wouldn't make much sense to me.

First of all: What constitutes what is near and what is far from home? What determines legitimate use from illegitimate use? Is there such a distinction? Why does use need to be limited to those traveling? (Are gas stations limited to those traveling?)

Why would I drive around all day, drive out of my way to a supercharger, hang out for 30 minutes and then drive home only to plug in?

Lastly, when is this vast army of Tesla vehicles coming that would clog the supercharging lines?

 

[FalconNinetyD]

Jason, are you competing for 'Best Week Ever'? Meet Elon, get a tour of SpaceX, AND be one of the first owners to supercharge?

They are open and they work!

Before:
View attachment 10150
View attachment 10151

After:
View attachment 10153

And two rocket scientists came by to check it out and have me a tour of SpaceX! No photos allowed, except this one in the lobby:
View attachment 10152

Because of SpaceX I don't know exactly how long the charge was, but certainly less than an hour.

 

[TEG]

... If the superchargers are totally consumed by those living locally, then it kind of negates the whole reason for installing the supercharger network...

Worst case is that someone lives or works next to the charging station, and they not only use it frequently, they also just park there all day.
We had this issue with the Belmont Blink CHAdeMO until the guy who worked next door realized he should move his car after charging each day so that others could have a chance to use it too...

 

[kevincwelch]

If the superchargers are totally consumed by those living locally, then it kind of negates the whole reason for installing the supercharger network.

Is there some kind of official statement from Tesla regarding the intention and fair use of the superchargers?

 

[Lloyd]

As a consumer, this wouldn't make much sense to me.

First of all: What constitutes what is near and what is far from home? What determines legitimate use from illegitimate use? Is there such a distinction? Why does use need to be limited to those traveling? (Are gas stations limited to those traveling?)

Why would I drive around all day, drive out of my way to a supercharger, hang out for 30 minutes and then drive home only to plug in?

Lastly, when is this vast army of Tesla vehicles coming that would clog the supercharging lines?

Near and Far I left open and only made a suggestion

You would drive around and use a supercharger because it is free. Many people to wierd things to get something for 'free' which it usually is not.

As I stated 20,000 per year Model S, and more when the X and Gen 3 are comming off the line in the next couple of years. Do the math!!

 

[kevincwelch]

T
View attachment 10152.

Jason, is the 60% thing refer to financial goals or Panther Cologne (60% of the time it works all the time)?

 

[kevincwelch]

Many people to wierd things to get something for 'free' which it usually is not.
As I stated 20,000 per year Model S, and more when the X and Gen 3 are comming off the line in the next couple of years. Do the math!!

Yes, people do weird things for free, but I don't see this being a practical thing only because of the time commitment to charge -- even if it is fast at 30 minutes.

20,000 cars = a lot for Tesla, but not a lot of cars in general.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Jason, is the 60% thing refer to financial goals or Panther Cologne (60% of the time it works all the time)?

Jason's a 60%-er in the sense of the Occupy movement?!

Lloyd, I understand your reasoning but, if Tesla doesn't want to get into complexities around billing for SC usage, the last thing they would want to get into is enforcement of any kind! It's just not doable or practical for a company their size; they have bigger fish to fry - building and delivering multiple model lines and surviving, to start with.

It is what it is; we'll have to rely on the judgment and honesty of Model S owners.

 

[Lloyd]

Jason's a 60%-er in the sense of the Occupy movement?!

Lloyd, I understand your reasoning but, if Tesla doesn't want to get into complexities around billing for SC usage, the last thing they would want to get into is enforcement of any kind! It's just not doable or practical for a company their size; they have bigger fish to fry - building and delivering multiple model lines and surviving, to start with.

It is what it is; we'll have to rely on the judgment and honesty of Model S owners.

Well, If I can't do long trips because locals are tying up the superchargers, then I won't own one. Simple as that. It takes ALL of the utility out of the system that they designed. It's a problem that I see coming and just trying to be proactive.

 

[cinergi]

I'm thinking it's appropriate to have incentives to drive the behavior we need for this all to work. Meaning, charge at home or work (L2) 99% of the time and use SC only when you're taking long-distance trips. Otherwise you'll need a lot more SC capability which doesn't need to be built and encourages the wrong behavior. Charging needs to continue to be done mostly at home or work. We don't need to build another gas station infrastructure. The paradigm is different.

 

[dadaleus]

Jason, are you competing for 'Best Week Ever'? Meet Elon, get a tour of SpaceX, AND be one of the first owners to supercharge?

Jason's a 60%-er in the sense of the Occupy movement?!

Way way off topic, but the 60% shirt is from our company party Monday where we announced our new site. 60%er is an inside joke because our CEO said shortly after we bought the compny that there were people only giving 60% effort. Being a 60%er became a bizarre sort of rallying cry.

So yea, certainly a great and crazy week, and it's only Tuesday!

 

[ckessel]

I'm thinking it's appropriate to have incentives to drive the behavior we need for this all to work.

The incentive is built into the time cost of supercharging. Charging is relatively cheap (compared to gas). Folks that can charge at home almost certainly will purely for the convenience of it. If someone is so hard up for money they're willing to drive to an SC site and wait, then I'm not going to begrudge that.

 

[Kipernicus]

I agree with Lloyd. If the superchargers are totally consumed by those living locally, then it kind of negates the whole reason for installing the supercharger network. Many apartment dwellers have successfully gotten chargers installed. Besides, I guarantee that there will then be someone upset because they charge at home and Tesla isn't giving them free charging. And people upset that others are hogging the chargers, ruining their trip.

The idea was to make it possible for people to drive distances, to make range anxiety a non-issue.

At least Tesla had the foresight to exclude the teeming masses of 40kWh customers from hogging up the superchargers!

I'm being sarcastic of course. I have ranted elsewhere that all Tesla cars should get to use the Tesla proprietary chargers.
At the same time, I am also very concerned about a charger being available when I *need* it to get on with my road trip.

At some locations there really is no risk of any non-road-tripping cars using the chargers. Like Tejon Ranch. I've been there, and I wanted to get out as quickly as possible what with the heat, smells, and flies. Other locations like Gilroy or Folsom outlet malls are very likely to have cars sitting at chargers longer than necessary as owners go shopping.

In that light, I agree with Bonnie and Lloyd, and wouldn't mind having demand and usage tempered by pricing.
Payment at chargers shouldn't be that hard - it's already being done.By Lloyd himself. He can tell us how difficult it is to manage.

 

[kendallpb]

The incentive is built into the time cost of supercharging. Charging is relatively cheap (compared to gas). Folks that can charge at home almost certainly will purely for the convenience of it. If someone is so hard up for money they're willing to drive to an SC site and wait, then I'm not going to begrudge that.

Indeed. I think, as usual, folks are looking for trouble. And making assumptions like when they go to a supercharger, (a) all slots will be full and (b) it'll be those darned uppity locals. There's no network yet and already the grumbling begins. ;-) The times a local might charge and the time a passer-through might charge won't necessarily coincide. And if they do occasionally, well, who's that different from having to wait on anything else while you travel (gas, rush hour traffic jams, accidents, etc.). I'm more optimistic.

The time cost is an excellent point. I was already thinking I wouldn't go out of my way, but might stop off to fill up if it's on my way to/from somewhere I'm going anyway. But really with the time cost, especially since topping off would be the slowest part (the last 20%, probably) . . . I'm not sure even that would make much sense. Maybe if I had a long trip later that day and was nearby (but then I'd be a traveller, local or not, darnitall). Time is money, etc.

Also I wonder if folks believe the supercharger expansion plan will stop cold at 5 years. I suspect not, at least not if Tesla does as well as we all (hopefully) hope. The network would grow more, existing stations may add spots/capacity (or move to larger lots and add more spots), etc. And then there are other charging options that will increase/multiply as other EVs take off, some companies have charging spots for employees, etc. Etc. etc. etc. I just don't see this being a major issue.

But I'm rambling and none of us has a crystal ball anyway. ;-)

- - - Updated - - -

P.S. Another thing to consider is that the supercharger stations most likely to be busy . . . aren't they likely to be near urban areas . . . likely to be popular destinations and/or stop-n-charge spots for travelers? It seems like the horrid out-of-towners will be the true threat to supercharging nirvana. :biggrin: :wink:

I'm teasing a little, of course, but it does seem quite possible.

 

[Larry Chanin]

I have a suggestion for Tesla: Supercharging should be "prohibited, or for a fee" within a certain distance from your home. This will prevent owners from supercharging to save a few $$ in their normal charging regimin which should be done at home, and keep the superchargers available for those that need them while traveling.

I don't have a problem paying for Supercharging, but I think we may be forgetting that constant Supercharging is going to be harmful to our batteries. If I were Tesla and I was concerned about local misuse, I would start by placing signs warning of the downsides of frequent Supercharging including voiding your warranty.

Larry

 

[Todd Burch]

I don't have a problem paying for Supercharging, but I think we may be forgetting that constant Supercharging is going to be harmful to our batteries. If I were Tesla and I was concerned about local misuse, I would start by placing signs warning of the downsides of frequent Supercharging including voiding your warranty.

Larry

Larry--perhaps you missed it, but if you supercharge in standard (not range) mode, Tesla says there's no harm to the battery.

For the concerns about busy superchargers, the solution is simple: Build more superchargers. If congestion gets bad, that means Tesla's selling cars. Build more superchargers. Put 'em all over the place. Every block. Now we're talking .