Tesla Supercharger network

[Larry Chanin]

I originally thought Supercharging was just a PR move. Then they did their reveal, and well demoed usable stations. That got me to 85kWh from 40. Now they say they are weeks away from Boston to DC (sure it is probably just 3 or 4 stations) but I am starting to think I will have an option along the way to Charlotte in a year or less. And probably about the same time frame to get to I-95 in SC via I-20. I am super psyched about superchargers now.

This is an important point.

If Tesla wants to fully capitalize on the Supercharger network in terms of promoting the evenual increased reservation rates of around 20,000+ per year for non-early adopters, they will have to do two things:

1) Continually advertise the ground-breaking benefits of the Supercharger network to the public
2) Continually demonstrate that the network roll-out is proceeding at a rapid rate, and not merely a public relations gimmick

Larry

 

[EdA]

According to this article: "By the end of next year, Tesla expects all major routes in the United States will have access to superchargers that replenish electric car battery within 30 minutes. Washington D.C. and Boston will be covered within the next month, he said."

article: Obama win should fuel electric car production, says Tesla CEO - chicagotribune.com

Good news for us east coast folks!

 

[JRP3]

Musk also said he would back any effort to boost federal tax credits for electric cars to as much as $10,000.

"We've got to stay the course, ramp up production, we've got to start making the next generation of vehicles affordable," he said during an event to announce the Motor Trend award.

I see those as contradictory statements. Making the cars more affordable does not mean increasing the subsidies. EV's need to start standing on their own, not asking for even greater support, especially the higher end vehicles that Tesla sells.

 

[ElSupreme]

I see those as contradictory statements. Making the cars more affordable does not mean increasing the subsidies. EV's need to start standing on their own, not asking for even greater support, especially the higher end vehicles that Tesla sells.

I actually think the tax break for the first 200,000 vehicles from a manufacturer is actually written quite well. The fact that it is a tax rebate, and not a voucher is awful. ICEs are made on such a scale that they get huge mass production advantages. By giving a tax break for the first 200,000 vehicles you allow the EV drivetrain to get to an acceptable mass production level to help compete against ICEs.

I don't see them as contradictory at all. Right now EVs aren't really affordable (to about 80% of the US population). Adding a subsidy now will help bring more into the buyer market, making the market bigger. These sales can help distribute engineering development costs over more units, and add to mass production economies of scale to reduce the costs of EVs over the long term. Ideally Tesla will be able to distribute development costs over more units, and produce batteries/motors/drivetrains cheaper so that when the $7,500 tax break runs out they will have saved that much from each car.

I am also of the opinion that the $7,500 tax break isn't really helping EV sales (except if they are rolled into a lease) only leases. Point being I have to finance my federal and state tax rebates into my loan. Because of this I had to make sure I could pay the loans payments every month. So in 2014 I am going to get a huge $12,500 gift from my tax returns. This isn't going to help me buy my Tesla. It might get me a ground source heat pump, or some solar panels, or a new kitchen. But it really isn't helping the EV market as much as it really should.

EDIT: Right now I would say that more than 80% of people could get into a LEAF or Volt or Focus EV. But their sticker price prevents a large portion from even looking at TCO values. And the 80% probably should have been around 70%

 

[Norbert]

I see those as contradictory statements. Making the cars more affordable does not mean increasing the subsidies. EV's need to start standing on their own, not asking for even greater support, especially the higher end vehicles that Tesla sells.

I believe $10k vs $7.5k is meant only for not so expensive cars, in the case of Tesla, for the Gen III.

Leaf and Volt are AFAIK still sold below cost, and Tesla does not yet make profit either.

 

[JRP3]

I actually think the tax break for the first 200,000 vehicles from a manufacturer is actually written quite well. The fact that it is a tax rebate, and not a voucher is awful.

Agree, but I don't think the rebate needs to increase. That sends a message that EV's are not advancing and not getting cheaper on their own.

ICEs are made on such a scale that they get huge mass production advantages. By giving a tax break for the first 200,000 vehicles you allow the EV drivetrain to get to an acceptable mass production level to help compete against ICEs.

Yeah, thanks, I actually do understand the point of the tax refund :wink: I just don't think increasing it is appropriate or necessary, nor do I think it will happen. To some degree EV companies will see that as a cushion and less of an incentive to cut costs.

 

[vfx]

Agree, but I don't think the rebate needs to increase.... To some degree EV companies will see that as a cushion and less of an incentive to cut costs.

Yeah, if there was an announcement that the incentive goes up $2,500 then do the EV makers instantly slap a $2,500 increase to the price of their cars?

More hopefully they would add at least $1,250 worth of value to the car when they do it.

 

[dpeilow]

Please keep this thread on Superchargers.

 

[sublimaze1]

Please keep this thread on Superchargers.

+1

I'd also like to offer anyone the opportunity to speak up if they have any idea when the southwest or Midwest chargers are planned.

Just sayin ...

 

[cinergi]

The company has already unveiled its California network of 480-volt “Superchargers,” but Christina Ra, a company spokeswoman, said Tesla would soon announce a similar Boston-to-Washington corridor, with the first station to be opened in Milford, Conn., “in the coming weeks.”

At Teslas Party, Superchargers and Delivery Dates - NYTimes.com

 

[ancreserve]

With one in Milford, CT and other in Wilmington, DE the 85kW will be able to make a run from Boston to DC easily. With 193 miles between Milford and Wilmington, it would be stretch for the 60kWh at normal highway speeds. Which begs the question were might the other supercharges go? NYC, NJ??

 

[Cottonwood]

With one in Milford, CT and other in Wilmington, DE the 85kW will be able to make a run from Boston to DC easily. With 193 miles between Milford and Wilmington, it would be stretch for the 60kWh at normal highway speeds. Which begs the question were might the other supercharges go? NYC, NJ??

I vote northern NJ.

Besides 60 kWh Model S's we need to consider 85 kWh Model X's and conservative, no range anxiety travel for 85 kWh Model S's.

Here are some assumptions that I would like to satisfy:

1. Charge at Supercharger rates with little reduction in charge rate.
2. Drive 70-80mph with air conditioning or heating.
3. Have enough margin for traffic jams, detours, etc.

#1 means that I don't want to charge to more than 80% SOC where the charging starts slowing down. 80% of 265 miles is 212 miles. #2 means that I want to assume a energy usage that is 20% worse than EPA. #3 means that I want a 20% reserve in the battery; this is like looking for a gas station when you get below a quarter of a tank.

Putting this together, we get a maximum distance between Superchargers of:

212 miles/1.2/1.2 = 147 miles

Some might consider this overly conservative, but we just want to drive our Model S's. I enjoy doing mental math while I drive to estimate margin and whether I will make it, but most drivers just want to drive their cars. If EV cars want to have mass market penetration, this needs to be easy without anxiety. That means being conservative.

One more Supercharger in northern NJ does just that for the Boston to Washington route. On the major routes, spacing Superchargers at 150 miles instead of 200 miles means 33% more chargers; that's cheap for peace of mind. In addition, it makes it possible for 60 kWh Model S's and 85 kWh Model X's to have a chance to do long distance driving.

 

[cinergi]

Agreed they should be closer -- but if you compare the 2 year and 4 year maps, you'll see they do get closer. Right now it's a matter of making it possible ... and then later, even more convenient.

 

[Cottonwood]

Agreed they should be closer -- but if you compare the 2 year and 4 year maps, you'll see they do get closer. Right now it's a matter of making it possible ... and then later, even more convenient.

My only problem with the 2 and 4 year maps is that not only were there more stations on the 4 year map; they moved some of the 2 year stations. Look at Eastern CO. Its one thing to do infill of stations, its much harder to move them. Also, even if you look at the 2 year map, they included a station in Northern NJ, in addition to Delaware and Connecticut.

 

[ancreserve]

I read on the forums that someone talked to George B. and he said NOT to rely on the dots on the maps to locate the Supercharger locations.

 

[Cottonwood]

I read on the forums that someone talked to George B. and he said NOT to rely on the dots on the maps to locate the Supercharger locations.

I would agree that is good advice from George. Its pretty obvious that those 2 and 4 year plans were a quick exercise in covering the country, without a lot of thought into detailed usage and logistics.

It is very good to see Superchargers being built outside of California! I can't wait to give one a try, but it may be a while before we see one in Colorado...

 

[ckessel]

I hope they come out with a more detailed explanation of the rollout. I'd like to plan whether I'm flying or driving from OR to CA next year and the supercharger is pretty key in that.

 

[DavidM]

Ok - I'll say it out loud.
I wonder if the decision to locate the next Superchargers from Boston to DC has anything to do with the auto dealer lawsuit in NY?
Maybe no connection. However, I do think the Motor Trend COTY announcement will influence the legal case. "the mean ol' auto dealers are tryin' to keep Tesla from selling this great car to the public".
Gotta luv it.

 

[vfx]

I hope they come out with a more detailed explanation of the rollout.....

I think it's going to go the way it has. Secretly build, it and announce the region by state just before it's complete and announce with a by example drive after it done.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Take a look at the reservations map. There's a very high density of cars in the DC--BOS corridor, second only to SFO--SAN. This was the natural second step. Building up from SFO to SEA and down from DC to MIA are the logical extensions from these cores.