Tesla Supercharger network

[Cattledog]

4-7: 393,887,736 kWh, saving 61,525,732 gallons of gas
4-22: 400,964,079 kWh, saving 62,631,065 gallons of gas

This works out to 73,688 gallons per day. Or 1,754 barrels of oil not used per day.

This is only going to be increasing going forward.

RT

Awesome, thanks.

So, there are about 330,000 Teslas worldwide, minus whatever is out of commission. About 15,000 of those are Model 3 and 2,500 are Roadsters. Just to make the math easy, let's say there are 300,000 Model S and Model X worldwide right now, driving away.

It looks like in half a month, they supercharged 7M kWh. Multiply by 24 for about 170M kWh/year for 300,000 cars. So it's about 570 kWh per car per year as an average, or about 1500 miles/year/car on supercharging.

Hadn't seen a number before, if someone has a more accurate one, it would be great. I'm trying to wrap my head around an extrapolation to when there are 1M Model 3s, then 2 M, then 1M Model Ys, etc.

 

[Fiver]

I was down in Green River Utah this past weekend and noticed at some point in the last year they replaced the older style Superchargers with the new ones. Are there any original style superchargers left? Either in body style or even original style and limited to 90kW?
(Not my image, and not Green River, Utah.)
/edit. I also realize these aren't truly the "original" style, but they were the first style in wide roll out. The ones in Tejon were OG with the handle inside the pedestal.

 

[ccutrer]

I was down in Green River Utah this past weekend and noticed at some point in the last year they replaced the older style Superchargers with the new ones. Are there any original style superchargers left? Either in body style or even original style and limited to 90kW?
(Not my image, and not Green River, Utah.)
/edit. I also realize these aren't truly the "original" style, but they were the first style in wide roll out. The ones in Tejon were OG with the handle inside the pedestal.


View attachment 299255

Last time I was in Beaver, UT (granted, it’s been several months) they were still that style. I just took a 3600 mile road trip from SLC to Ohio and they were all the new pedestals, but a few were still the older style handles where the button actually separates, instead of the circle with the button underneath (but not uniformly at that station; some handles had been updated).

 

[Fiver]

Last time I was in Beaver, UT (granted, it’s been several months) they were still that style. I just took a 3600 mile road trip from SLC to Ohio and they were all the new pedestals, but a few were still the older style handles where the button actually separates, instead of the circle with the button underneath (but not uniformly at that station; some handles had been updated).

Last November I took a trip to southern CA from the SLC area. The only ones I ran into that were the old style were in Beaver UT and North Las Vegas.

Looking back to my photos from Nov 2016 when I drove from SLC to New England and back: Grand Jct CO, Glenwood Springs, CO, Silverthorne CO, Triadelphia WV, and Somerset PA were all the old style, but that was 18 months ago so I assume some or all of those have been swapped out to the newer style since then.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I think Syosset, NY still has the old style stalls.


I stopped into the Stamford, CT Town Hall today and visited the Planning and Zoning board.

They have no records or knowledge of Tesla filing any applications for charging stations in Stamford (or North Stamford).

So for now, those two are still just dots on a map, and I suppose Tesla may still be site scouting.

 

[diamond.g]

What do you guys think of this YT Vid?

I just don't see how Tesla could ever hope to make an adapter for CCS Vehicles to use the SC Network and still actually make money off of it.

 

[Electroman]

I have no interest or time to listen to someone talking slowly and rambling on. I wish they also had a small paragraph that summarizes the 10 minute of video.

 

[diamond.g]

I have no interest or time to listen to someone talking slowly and rambling on. I wish they also had a small paragraph that summarizes the 10 minute of video.

Sorry, the gist: Non-EV owners confuse the Tesla SC Network as being usable by all EV's. "We" (non-Tesla EV Owners) should disabuse them of this notion. Tesla should make the SC Network available to all.
In the comments I pointed out that Elon did say they would work with EV makers to allow plug compatibility, but the video poster says that Tesla shouldn't talk to the makers they should sell an adapter to the non0Tesla EV Owners.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Sorry, the gist: Non-EV owners confuse the Tesla SC Network as being usable by all EV's. "We" (non-Tesla EV Owners) should disabuse them of this notion. Tesla should make the SC Network available to all.
In the comments I pointed out that Elon did say they would work with EV makers to allow plug compatibility, but the video poster says that Tesla shouldn't talk to the makers they should sell an adapter to the non0Tesla EV Owners.

Other EVs aren't able to handle the high rates of charge supplied by Superchargers. If an adapter was made available, it would probably max out at 50 kW which is way less than what Teslas can handle. This would then cause Superchargers to fill up with non-Tesla EVs. Imagine the lines at California Superchargers then!

 

[Ugliest1]

Sorry, the gist: Non-EV owners confuse the Tesla SC Network as being usable by all EV's. "We" (non-Tesla EV Owners) should disabuse them of this notion. Tesla should make the SC Network available to all.
In the comments I pointed out that Elon did say they would work with EV makers to allow plug compatibility, but the video poster says that Tesla shouldn't talk to the makers they should sell an adapter to the non0Tesla EV Owners.

I'll just go ahead and disagree with the video poster. The problem is not Tesla's superchargers and Tesla, it's the other manufacturers' products that have not been designed to take the power a supercharger delivers. This isn't chicken/egg -- the other manufacturers have to step up. It's not like they haven't had about 5+ years to plan for it -- I think Elon made his sharing remarks very soon after the first supercharger was unveiled fall 2012, but maybe it was 2013.

 

[wdolson]

Elon has said he's completely open to other car makers using the network as long as two things are met: they pay for their cars' usage and the other cars can handle the rate of Tesla superchargers. The only non-Tesla EV out there even in the ballpark is the Bolt and I think it maxes out much lower (I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment). There are some cars coming out that will be able to charge at supercharger rates, but those manufacturers don't want to admit Tesla has any advantages over their way.

I suspect there is going to be a Betamax vs VHS battle coming over charging standards. Tesla has the better tech and currently is way, way ahead in convenient locations. Though CCS can output in the same range as superchargers with the right installation.

It's going to be a few years before CCS cars in aggregate will be able to match Tesla's production numbers. And we'll see how the CCS network gets deployed. There may come a point where the Tesla standard wins out. Or maybe not. It's hard to tell for sure.

Ultimately I think there will have to be some kind of standard for all long term. Those standards exist with gas/diesel fueling in ICE.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

EVs that can handle more than 50 KW are coming. The Bolt EV is only about 55 KW (at low SOC), so not really fast enough. The 2019 Leaf is rumored around 100 KW, but the 2018 Leaf is certainly not capable. Probably the only real possibilities will be the luxury vehicles (Jaguar, Volvo, Audi, BMW, Porsche, etc.) whenever they finally arrive en mass. Ultimately no manufacture wants their vehicle surrounded by Tesla cars and marketing. I doubt that anyone will take up Elon's offer. It would be really cool if some far out CEO bit the bullet, but I doubt it. Finally, as much as I like the SC network, a future network (Tesla included) may even be better. For example, I've seen marketing literature for the ChargePoint Express, 1 MW, 200-1000V, up to 8 pedestals. Eventually everyone will need to follow the Tesla model. We need more L2 destination charging and more DCQC and we need it now. Tesla will deliver its 200,000th EV soon, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the MILLIONS that are needed.

 

[mblakele]

I think allowing non-Tesla vehicles would work best if Tesla spun off the Supercharger network as a separate company. That way other car companies could invest in it to buy access for their vehicles. They’d probably feel better about joining if the network weren’t completely under Tesla’s control.

The devil would be in the details, of course. The new company would need cash flow to operate and expand the network. And voting rights could be very difficult to negotiate. As an owner I’d want Tesla to have a veto over any changes that would reduce my access.

 

[wdolson]

EVs that can handle more than 50 KW are coming. The Bolt EV is only about 55 KW (at low SOC), so not really fast enough. The 2019 Leaf is rumored around 100 KW, but the 2018 Leaf is certainly not capable. Probably the only real possibilities will be the luxury vehicles (Jaguar, Volvo, Audi, BMW, Porsche, etc.) whenever they finally arrive en mass. Ultimately no manufacture wants their vehicle surrounded by Tesla cars and marketing. I doubt that anyone will take up Elon's offer. It would be really cool if some far out CEO bit the bullet, but I doubt it. Finally, as much as I like the SC network, a future network (Tesla included) may even be better. For example, I've seen marketing literature for the ChargePoint Express, 1 MW, 200-1000V, up to 8 pedestals. Eventually everyone will need to follow the Tesla model. We need more L2 destination charging and more DCQC and we need it now. Tesla will deliver its 200,000th EV soon, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the MILLIONS that are needed.

I vaguely recalled something around 50KW for the Bolt.

Just FYI, Tesla is well over 200K cars. They care coming up on their 200,000th US delivery, but overall they are probably around 350K to 400K overall. The last year or two US orders have only been about 40% of Tesla sales. It will be higher this year because of the Model 3 though.

 

[Chuq]

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[Bet TSLA]

"Yeah, there are thousands of Supercharger locations going through permitting/construction..."

Even coming from Elon this is very hard to believe. The diligence of all the contributors to supercharge.info have identified only 107 supercharger locations in the world going through permitting or under construction. Even if we're generous and allow that half the existing locations are in that state as they're being expanded that adds only 626 more. How do we get to thousands? Perhaps if we also include countless locations that are currently only a gleam in Elon's eye?

"Will publish an updated map in the next few days."

This should be interesting.

 

[AudubonB]

SpC Team: “Mr. Musk - do we have permission to consider a Supercharger in {Paxson, Alaska}”?
ERMusk: “Yes, you have permission to consider it.”


Ta da! And that’s a form of “permitting”. Easy to get to thousands.

 

[wdolson]

Even coming from Elon this is very hard to believe. The diligence of all the contributors to supercharge.info have identified only 107 supercharger locations in the world going through permitting or under construction. Even if we're generous and allow that half the existing locations are in that state as they're being expanded that adds only 626 more. How do we get to thousands? Perhaps if we also include countless locations that are currently only a gleam in Elon's eye?


This should be interesting.

Maybe he's referring to the actual supercharger spaces coming, not just the locations. They are building a lot bigger superchargers now. 2000 chargers installed in 24 charger locations would result in 83 locations. Not all new installations are that large, but even if the average is only 12 per location that's 166 new locations.

 

[KJD]

Right now the cash burn rate is giving Tesla a lot of bad press. If they really can get the Model 3 production numbers high enough that the company can break even or show a small profit, then I could totally see Tesla spending more money on Supercharger locations. Elon has said that the SC stations are their way of advertising.

Maybe I am overthinking this but it might be Elon's way of expressing confidence in the production and balance sheet numbers are going to get much better sooner than most people think.

 

[ohmman]

Maybe he's referring to the actual supercharger spaces coming, not just the locations.

That's how they've used the number in the past when postulating about the number of Supercharger stations coming, so I think you're right. I personally prefer locations to be counted as physically different groups of chargers, but I understand wanting to quantify adding 40 stalls vs. adding 6.