Tesla Supercharger network

[Drucifer]

My example:
As of today, yes, I can drive to Atlanta-- but I would have to travel almost 500 miles out-of-my-way to get there, in lieu of heading nearly due East.
It is huge gap without Superchargers, probably fairly easy to complete in one day's drive (one and a half day max) after they do get installed.

I agree we need more in the southeast, but Dallas to Atlanta direct is 780 miles, via Houston, I-10 etc. is 1040 miles, so the difference is 260 miles out of your way.

The bad news is you are likely to see I-40 completed before I-20, not really helping that particular trip all that much, essentially giving you a northern route and a southern route, but not a direct route.

 

[Kevin Harney]

I am not trying to provoke a negative discussion but needing to take a 500 mile detour is NOT what I would consider being a place I would call being within driving range of my Tesla.

I think they meant that they CAN get there but the route is so far off course that it extends the trip by 500 miles.

 

[Drucifer]

I think they meant that they CAN get there but the route is so far off course that it extends the trip by 500 miles.

Maybe he meant round trip, which would be spot on.

 

[jvonbokel]

For some reason my gut disagrees with what it appears to present: PA is the state with the most dire supercharger need at the moment, but I don't have a lot of data to back that up. I just don't feel that PA is a hotbed of EV enthusiasm with pent up buying demand that would be unleashed if more superchargers were open there.

Another consideration with PA is that it has 4 Superchargers within 10 miles of its border (Triadelphia, Hagerstown, Newark, and Hamilton Marketplace). Things like that can skew the metric when it's something as arbitrary as state borders. Perhaps I should start putting a disclaimer on my charts.

 

[Drucifer]

Another consideration with PA is that it has 4 Superchargers within 10 miles of its border (Triadelphia, Hagerstown, Newark, and Hamilton Marketplace). Things like that can skew the metric when it's something as arbitrary as state borders. Perhaps I should start putting a disclaimer on my charts.

I think you're fine.

I-80 through PA is only between NYC Metro and Cleveland/Detroit/Chicago - no biggie, right?
I-76/I-70 is only between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh/Columbus/Cincinnati/Indianapolis/St. Louis - nobody uses that road! </sarcasm>
I-81 is only the main inland alternate on the east coast to I-95/I-85

40% of the U.S. Population lives within 500 miles of Harrisburg, PA. I live in North Carolina, but still can understand why the Keystone State has to be critical to any highway network endeavor like the SC network.

 

[JST]

How many Superchargers there are in a state has little to do with how large a state is in square miles, but much to do with how many Teslas reside in that state. California obviously has far more Teslas than any other state. I have seen some estimates that close to half of all Teslas sold in the USA are in California.

Or how many go through it, like Delaware.

For me personally (also in DC), I think the supercharger build out is pretty good. I'd love to see the I-81 corridor built out more quickly, or the promised one for Atlantic City, or a supplement for the DE charger...but I can't really complain. I can go pretty much everywhere I need to go.

 

[purplewalt]

I agree we need more in the southeast, but Dallas to Atlanta direct is 780 miles, via Houston, I-10 etc. is 1040 miles, so the difference is 260 miles out of your way.

The bad news is you are likely to see I-40 completed before I-20, not really helping that particular trip all that much, essentially giving you a northern route and a southern route, but not a direct route.

Over 500+ miles RT (as I gotta return home) delta Dallas to Atlanta taking I-20 vs current Supercharger path.
I've been there twice in my MS, once solely using RV Parks, second time using Superchargers exclusively, but having to go out of my way (actually was on my way to Philly).
Superchargers rock, but only if they have a proximity and some sort of directness to where you want to travel.


Let's look at Dallas to Nashville.
And I have been there in my MS before Superchargers were on the ground (using trusty but slow-charging RV parks).
661 miles each way, if driven directly.
If I follow the Southern Route using Superchargers it is 1,274 miles.
Each way.

Now, If I take the current Northern Route using Superchargers, it is 1,327 miles.
If Paducah, KY gets blessed with a Single Supercharger the route is cut to 1,057 miles.
But Paducah's Supercharger isn't there yet, so there is currently a 613 mile delta each way taking the "more direct" Southern Route.
Times two to get home is 1200+ miles.
Those would be 1,200+ extra miles almost doubling the distance of my trip.


One more example:
Dallas to Florence, AL.
(And yes I have made a ride specifically to visit Florence, AL, that time on my bike.)
605 miles if driven/ridden direct.
Florence is about 124 miles South and East of Nashville, each way is 248 miles, well within range of a full charge in Nashville.
Adding that up, it's about 1,398 miles (Southern Route) on Superchargers vs 605 miles direct.
Slightly less than 800 miles extra miles.

EACH WAY.

That is 1,586 MILES TOTAL extra miles, for what could be a 1,210 mile total road trip.
Way more than doubling my trip.

Just let that sink in.

sigh...



Guys, my point is, the current map needs to be updated and acted on by TM in the worst possible way.
The examples above are but a couple exposing this oversight on Tesla's part, as they continue to add Supercharger on top of Supercharger to California when this kind of gap, er CHASM still exists.
Seriously, when will someone inside Fremont take their blinders off and see what other opportunities exist throughout the rest of the US map?

Question:
Is there really that great a need to have so many Superchargers less than 12 to 15 miles apart in portions of California?
Rocklin to Roseville is 5.3 miles apart
Roseville to Folsom is 11.9 miles apart (three total Superchargers in that vicinity)
Culver City to Hawthorne is 9.7 miles apart
Redondo Beach to Hawthorne is 6.5 miles apart (another three total within a tight vicinity)
And now there will be TWO locations within 5 miles of each other in Truckee (second one is under construction)

et cetera

Seriously smh


I love driving my car, but it is not as much fun to drive without Superchargers.
Much less fun.

Just this March, 2015, Texas and Louisiana finally got a little love and we were connected to Ardmore, Weatherford, OK and beyond to the Texas panhandle.
Maybe by March, 2016 I-40 and I-20 will get a bunch more love.

 

[gnelson]

purplewalt- I just made a trip from Houston to Nashville and the return. It works better for us in Houston. On the way I Supercharged in Lake Charles, Baton Rouge, Mobile and Greenville, AL. I then drove to Decatur, AL. I charged at an RV park there while I spent the night. It is an easy drive from Decatur to Nashville. On the return we drove about 150 mi out of the way to Supercharge in Chattanooga, Atlanta and Auburn. I would be happier going thtough Dallas, Little Rock and Memphis.

 

[Drucifer]

Purplewalt, thanks for sharing your travel experiences.

If I were to prioritize the mid-south,

I-40 OKC to Nashville along with I-30 DFW to Little Rock would be at the top of the list. Then,
I-55 NOLA to St. Louis would be next after that, then
I-59 Chattanooga to NOLA after that, then
I-20 Odessa, TX, via DFW, to Florence, South Carolina, then
I-65 Montgomery, AL to Indianapolis, then
I-44 OKC to St. Louis and I-24 Nashville to St. Louis

My .02

 

[dhanson865]

Way more than doubling my trip.

Just let that sink in.

sigh...



Guys, my point is, the current map needs to be updated and acted on by TM in the worst possible way.
The examples above are but a couple exposing this oversight on Tesla's part, as they continue to add Supercharger on top of Supercharger to California when this kind of gap, er CHASM still exists.
Seriously, when will someone inside Fremont take their blinders off and see what other opportunities exist throughout the rest of the US map?

+1 in general and I'd say we are getting to the point that the naming structure of the maps needs to change again.

Today, 2015, 2016 is silly. I'd hate to see that renamed to Today, 2016, 2017.

Today includes a color code for Opening Soon but there is no color coding on the 2016 map.

I'd suggest they either color code a years map for first half vs second half or switch the tab names to more than one tab per year.

Give me Today, 1H 2016, 2H 2016, 1H 2017 and don't bother with estimates any further out. Toss in 2H 2017 or anything further out if you want to be grandiose but I'd rather the site just be updated more often and have better granularity than just an entire year per tab.

Tesla is getting to the point where they will be making and selling 100,000+ cars a year. The supercharger map is one of their biggest forms of advertising right now. They need to get it updated and designed to be easier for the uninitiated to read (the newbies). You shouldn't have to have a degree in Tesla demystification to be able to decide if supercharging will help you the individual.

 

[David99]

Let's look at Dallas to Nashville.
And I have been there in my MS before Superchargers were on the ground (using trusty but slow-charging RV parks).
661 miles each way, if driven directly.
If I follow the Southern Route using Superchargers it is 1,274 miles.
Each way.

One more example:
Dallas to Florence, AL.

I totally agree, there are many serious gaps in the network. Just looking at the map there is many many areas where you just can't drive using Superchargers because there are absent. And then you see three Superchargers in LA within a 20 mile radius. (Hawthorne, Culver City and Redondo Beach).

The mistake is looking at physical space (the map) to determine Model S traffic. There are hundreds of examples where you can't drive a Model S across the US. We all want these gaps to be closed. But at this point in time, there are just not many Model S in those places where Tesla hasn't set up Superchargers yet. And there is a sh##load of Model S traffic all the way through California. Again, looking at the map, it might seem like waste to have three Superchargers so close in Los Angeles. But physical space doesn't mean anything. It's all about how much Tesla traffic there is. I have visited all three of these Superchargers many times and they are always busy. When there are several thousand Model S in one area, one Superchargers just won't cut it. When there are 8 Model S wanting to drive from Dallas to Florence, Tesla might not see the urgency to put a Supercharger on that route right away.

No one will deny the fact there are still many gaps in the Supercharger network. We all know it, we see it and we need them to be closed. But looking at the map of California and concluding there are too many Superchargers is just wrong. Looking at physical space (the map) is the wrong way to look at Supercharger demand. I have been visiting almost all Superchargers in Southern California many times and all of them are busy, often very busy. It isn't about lack of love for some areas and California getting more 'love'. It's simple demand. I know it won't happen, but I really wish Tesla would show a map that shows Model S traffic on a map. California would be one big red spot.

The only real data I have that gives you an idea of the difference in Model S density is service centers. There are 17 in California. Across the other states the average is less than 1! This should give everyone a rough idea how many more Model S are driving here and that Superchargers density in California is actually low relative to the number of Model S on the road here.

 

[PeterK]

... No one will deny the fact there are still many gaps in the Supercharger network. We all know it, we see it and we need them to be closed. But looking at the map of California and concluding there are too many Superchargers is just wrong. Looking at physical space (the map) is the wrong way to look at Supercharger demand. I have been visiting almost all Superchargers in Southern California many times and all of them are busy, often very busy. It isn't about lack of love for some areas and California getting more 'love'. It's simple demand. I know it won't happen, but I really wish Tesla would show a map that shows Model S traffic on a map. California would be one big red spot. ..,

I'll grant you all that. The last thing I want to read is stories about CA Tesla owners waiting an hour or more to charge.

But it sounds like the density and crowding is such that I can't help thinking there are a lot of people using the Superchargers as their primary chargers to save a few $ when they were going to stop for a bite or a Starbucks anyway. Elon's notes ruffled feathers but there is a point. I understand occasional use for when one forgets to charge overnight or has a sudden change of plans, but these things are intended to enable road trips, not daily commuting.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

But it sounds like the density and crowding is such that I can't help thinking there are a lot of people using the Superchargers as their primary chargers to save a few $ when they were going to stop for a bite or a Starbucks anyway. Elon's notes ruffled feathers but there is a point.

To coin a verb, NOLANDing.
V. deliberately causing someone else to fund part of your electric budget:

And about one-third of those kilowatt-hours have gone into the Tesla.

A Supercharger nearby would allow me to cut my electricity usage by a third, reverse the meter’s long-term climb, and eventually return to my ultimate goal: negative territory.

Social pressure should be used to some extent, IMHO, before throwing more resources at congested SCs, anywhere. Call 'em out for being nolanding nolanders. When it can be shown that the congestion is less than xx% nolanders, by all means expand and supplement. Until then, your beef is with those who noland, more than with Tesla or those pointing out gaps.

 

[PeterK]

To coin a verb, NOLANDing.
V. deliberately causing someone else to fund part of your electric budget:

Social pressure should be used to some extent, IMHO, before throwing more resources at congested SCs, anywhere. Call 'em out for being nolanding nolanders. When it can be shown that the congestion is less than xx% nolanders, by all means expand and supplement. Until then, your beef is with those who noland, more than with Tesla or those pointing out gaps.

I agree. But please edit your post so it doesn't look like I'm the one Nolanding. [emoji1]

 

[BobtheV]

Maybe this will set things straight

 

[purplewalt]

I totally agree, there are many serious gaps in the network. Just looking at the map there is many many areas where you just can't drive using Superchargers because there are absent. And then you see three Superchargers in LA within a 20 mile radius. (Hawthorne, Culver City and Redondo Beach).

The mistake is looking at physical space (the map) to determine Model S traffic. There are hundreds of examples where you can't drive a Model S across the US. We all want these gaps to be closed. But at this point in time, there are just not many Model S in those places where Tesla hasn't set up Superchargers yet. And there is a sh##load of Model S traffic all the way through California. Again, looking at the map, it might seem like waste to have three Superchargers so close in Los Angeles. But physical space doesn't mean anything. It's all about how much Tesla traffic there is. I have visited all three of these Superchargers many times and they are always busy. When there are several thousand Model S in one area, one Superchargers just won't cut it. When there are 8 Model S wanting to drive from Dallas to Florence, Tesla might not see the urgency to put a Supercharger on that route right away.

No one will deny the fact there are still many gaps in the Supercharger network. We all know it, we see it and we need them to be closed. But looking at the map of California and concluding there are too many Superchargers is just wrong. Looking at physical space (the map) is the wrong way to look at Supercharger demand. I have been visiting almost all Superchargers in Southern California many times and all of them are busy, often very busy. It isn't about lack of love for some areas and California getting more 'love'. It's simple demand. I know it won't happen, but I really wish Tesla would show a map that shows Model S traffic on a map. California would be one big red spot.

The only real data I have that gives you an idea of the difference in Model S density is service centers. There are 17 in California. Across the other states the average is less than 1! This should give everyone a rough idea how many more Model S are driving here and that Superchargers density in California is actually low relative to the number of Model S on the road here.

Respectfully, to quote from Tesla Motors Supercharger web page:
"...Stations are strategically placed to minimize stops during long distance travel..." (emphasis added)

Using that as the basis for the location and use of ALL superchargers, I seriously doubt that there are that many non-local drivers queued up who have driven over 140 to 200 miles that day who are Supercharging at any of the multiple locations near LA and Bay Area in California.
Because if they are long distance travelers, what level are they Charging to?
They shouldn't need to be charging to FULL *(which does take longer)*, because they only need to charge enough to get to the next Supercharger (they are traveling long distances -- remember?)

You are deflecting and not addressing the real issue when you mention the number of Service Centers that are in California.
And admitting that the majority of people who are Supercharging in certain areas in California are actually locals (from less than 100 miles away, who should be doing their charging at home).
The "use level" of some Superchargers Stations will always look high if locals are doing the majority (or all) of their charging at Superchargers.

So, if one California driver has to wait "one hour" to Supercharge, and anyone else in the U.S. has to drive over 200 miles out of their way, or worse, stop and charge at a RV Park for 6 or 7 hours, so it all equals out because there are more MS in California -- that is your point?

There are peak hours that certain Superchargers in California get used, and off-peak hours.
Have the locals charge at off-peak hours if that is their charging strategy.
AND I highly doubt there is a significant number of California drivers who are stopping at RV Parks (or overnight at a hotel) to get a full charge while long distance driving, unless they are actually camping.
Or who need to travel over 200 miles out of their way on a long drive.
That is what is just wrong.
Having one big Red Spot for drivers in California is anti-thetical to the entire notion of installing Superchargers.
They are for long-distance travel.
Installing extra Superchargers in California just enables people to use them excessively without charging at home.
And that is wrong.



Last July, I charged at both Barstow and Hawthorne, and those locations were both crowded.
Agreed, they both needed extra Superchargers to service the amount of traffic/need.
AND since then, BOTH locations have been significantly reworked with additional ports to facilitate charging.
Note: My observation at both of those locations is the majority of people charging were locals, NOT long distance travelers.

Superchargers are supposed to be installed to offer CHARGING "connections" along the highway to your destination.
Over-supplying Superchargers in Specific Areas (California) at the expense of NON-connectivity in other Areas of the U.S. is the entire premise for my series of posts in this thread.

Once TM gets rid of the driving CHASMS that exist around the rest of the U.S./North America first, then go back and fill in supplemental Superchargers wherever they are needed/wanted/getting overused by locals.
But the fact remains: Superchargers are VERY much needed in many other areas than California RIGHT NOW.

 

[David99]

Installing extra Superchargers in California just enables people to use them excessively without charging at home.
And that is wrong. ....

Over-supplying Superchargers in Specific Areas (California)

There is no oversupply. The ratio between number of Model S vs Superchargers is definitely worse in California than in some other states. Just because there are a lot of people living in a certain area doesn't make them all local and there is no long distance traveling. Many people drive a lot more than 100 miles around California. Just because most of their driving happens in and through densely developed areas doesn't make it any less long distance travel. Believe it or not, there is more long distance traveling in California than in any other state. And there is even more Teslas in California than in any other state.

It's also not true that California has been hogging resources and prevented other areas to be build out. Tesla build a few here and then moved on to building everywhere else. They spent a lot on connecting the first coast to coast route putting SC in areas no one uses. It was a total marketing stunt for the record drive. I drove this route 6 times so I got a good idea how little (next to none) use these SC locations get. The same is true for many other SC around the country. In the mean time California SC overcrowded. Barstow was constantly full around weekends with people going back and forth to Vegas. Hawthorne was a disaster, Fremont almost as bad as Barstow. SJC was so bad that I rather looked for L2 so I could skip it. The connection between north and south also had these SC at capacity. Tesla realized they have a problem and started filling in several more SC in California.

 

[purplewalt]

There is no oversupply. The ratio between number of Model S vs Superchargers is definitely worse in California than in some other states. Just because there are a lot of people living in a certain area doesn't make them all local and there is no long distance traveling. Many people drive a lot more than 100 miles around California. Just because most of their driving happens in and through densely developed areas doesn't make it any less long distance travel. Believe it or not, there is more long distance traveling in California than in any other state. And there is even more Teslas in California than in any other state.

It's also not true that California has been hogging resources and prevented other areas to be build out. Tesla build a few here and then moved on to building everywhere else. They spent a lot on connecting the first coast to coast route putting SC in areas no one uses. It was a total marketing stunt for the record drive. I drove this route 6 times so I got a good idea how little (next to none) use these SC locations get. The same is true for many other SC around the country. In the mean time California SC overcrowded. Barstow was constantly full around weekends with people going back and forth to Vegas. Hawthorne was a disaster, Fremont almost as bad as Barstow. SJC was so bad that I rather looked for L2 so I could skip it. The connection between north and south also had these SC at capacity. Tesla realized they have a problem and started filling in several more SC in California.

Respectfully, look at the current Supercharger layout in California
Then look at the Supercharge NETWORK and the lack of it in various areas throughout the rest of the U/S and North America.

You nor anyone else in California did not pay any more for your cars than other Model S Owners on the rest of the map.
Once the REST of the network is more filled in, then start adding more Superchargers back to California.
In the meantime, it is wrong.

And I highly doubt your assertion that a majority of the in-City Supercharging is by people driving more than 100 miles a day in order to qualify for long-distance travel.
My view is the majority of the charging are by locals abusing the system, and penalizing everyone else.

Since I was in California in July, 2014, the following California Superchargers have been either built new or added on to:
Truckee
Oxnard
Indio
Cabazon
Culver City
El Centro
Needles
Redondo Beach
Lone Pine
Petaluma
Manteca
Rocklin (SC)
Inyokern
Mojave
SanDiego
San Mateo
Seaside
Fountain View
Plus upgrades @ Barstow @ Hawthorne
Let's add Primm, NV to this list too.

That is 21 stations Opened or Upgraded in 15 months.
And four more, five (if your count Gardnerville, NV) more are currently under construction.
Five more in permitting.
ALL in California (or right on the border).
And respectfully, yes, that is an over-supply in California.

While there are still significant CHASMS throughout the rest of the U.S. and North America.
And that is just wrong.

Somebody @ TM needs to either wake up or at least take their blinders off!!!
Each Supercharger costs real money to build, and IMO California is getting way too much love, while other areas are still lacking support and connection.



I do agree with other posters in neglected areas: they will not buy a car until the Supercharger Network is built-out and Connected in their area.
Why would they want to buy into a system that is not going to support their ability to travel?

 

[Drucifer]

I do agree with other posters in neglected areas: they will not buy a car until the Supercharger Network is built-out and Connected in their area.
Why would they want to buy into a system that is not going to support their ability to travel?

Many people won't buy a car that won't work for their travel patterns. Other people look at the maps and future expected dates of available locations and say, "by next summer, I should be able to use my Model S to go on my vacation to _____________, so I can just buy it now."

 

[muleferg]

I feel like the lonely washing machine repairman when I go to the SC.

Burlington, NC