Tesla: The real out of warranty costs

[David99]

I have so far been extremely luck that I only had one out of warranty repair that was $300 (coolant valve). Everything else was covered by warranty. I replaced the head lights myself which the Service center would have charged close to $1000 for or worse. But over all very little cost to keep the car running for 4 years and 152k miles. Once the normal wear and tear starts to come down, I will try to do as much as possible myself. YouTube is your friend. But frankly I'm worried. Tesla seems to have the attitude every Tesla owner is rich and will pay whatever repair will you throw at them.

I'm also very concerned about Tesla being very proprietary with repairs and parts. You can't even replace a seat yourself because you would have to program it to the car and without the software the service center has, you are out of luck. Elon's words do sound pretty empty if you look at the facts. Kind of giving the finger to us early adopters.

 

[base698]

Seems like "electric cars are simpler and require less maintenance" was brilliant marketing on Tesla's part.

 

[sundaymorning]

Because Musk SPECIFICALLY said over three years ago they were not going to be profit centers.
Watch Elon Musk Make An Emotional Speech About How Auto Dealers Are 'Perverting Democracy' To Destroy Tesla And Hurt Customers

"Our philosophy with respect to service is not to make a profit on service. I think it's terrible to make a profit on service," says Musk. "And, unfortunately the way the auto dealer association is set up is that they make most of their money on service. So, obviously, this would no be a good outcome."

How do you suppose Tesla will expand its centers to service customers all around the world? Their $175 for labor isn’t bad considering the massive centers and equipment they have to service your car. If your unhappy, please sell the car and turn to any other luxury manufacture of your choice. No one is making you stay. Go buy a leaf it’s much cheaper.

Put it bluntly, Tesla isn’t here to serve you, they are here to serve their entire customer base from all over the world and that takes money.

After 80 k miles, I can’t be happier with Tesla’s service. This is coming from a 90k Lexus customer who regularly spend real dough at the Lexus repair shop. $600 on oil change per year alone, and about $1900 on a starter & radiator change. In the end, you have to pay to play.

 

[Electricious]

Seems like "electric cars are simpler and require less maintenance" was brilliant marketing on Tesla's part.

Maintenance, yes.

Repairs, not necessarily. Most of the ICE cars we have had have been solid in the drive-train department and the repairs had to do with non-drive train components.

What makes ensuring a Tesla is always under warranty is that unlike other cars you can't source parts or take your car to an independent shop. If Tesla says it is $800 to replace a door handle, or $2,500 for a MCU, you have to suck it up and pay.

 

[Electricious]

$600 on oil change per year alone, and about $1900 on a starter & radiator change. In the end, you have to pay to play.

I agree about paying to play but I'd flip that $600 oil change fee you quoted and say that not having all the complicated parts of an ICE engine, Tesla should not charge $600 for some service visits.

 

[Brian-MS90D]

What makes ensuring a Tesla is always under warranty is that unlike other cars you can't source parts or take your car to an independent shop. If Tesla says it is $800 to replace a door handle, or $2,500 for a MCU, you have to suck it up and pay.

This may be true if you're comparing your Tesla to a Chevy or a Honda Accord. However, that is a bad comparison. The necessity of taking a Tesla to a Tesla repair center should be expected by everyone. Tesla has barely sold ~ 200,000 total vehicles. Does anyone expect independent shops to invest the time and money to accommodate Tesla repairs? Other low volume and high end (those two tend to go together) cars/brands (that still sell WAY more cars than Tesla) also have the reality of the consumer being captive to the brand's service center and parts (for example, Land Rover, Aston Martin, etc).

I don't understand how so many people are surprised that their $100k extremely low production volume car may have higher service/parts charges than a Honda Accord, for example.

 

[Electricious]

This may be true if you're comparing your Tesla to a Chevy or a Honda Accord. However, that is a bad comparison. The necessity of taking a Tesla to a Tesla repair center should be expected by everyone. Tesla has barely sold ~ 200,000 total vehicles. Does anyone expect independent shops to invest the time and money to accommodate Tesla repairs? Other low volume and high end (those two tend to go together) cars/brands (that still sell WAY more cars than Tesla) also have the reality of the consumer being captive to the brand's service center and parts (for example, Land Rover, Aston Martin, etc).

I don't understand how so many people are surprised that their $100k extremely low production volume car may have higher service/parts charges than a Honda Accord, for example.

Please.

The reason there are no independent Tesla repair shops is because Tesla pretty much forbids this practice by not making available repair manuals like just about every manufacturer and not selling parts like any other manufacturer. There have been people who wanted to invest their own money to setup independent Tesla repair shops and they all ran into road blocks.

I have news for you, Tesla is no longer an extremely low volume $100K per car manufacturer.

My very first car was a Honda but every car since then has been a German or Japanese premium car so I'm quite used to what premium cars cost to repair and maintain but that is beside the point. When these cars enter the used car market, people are going to be in for some serious shock at some of the repair costs. This is partly because they don't fix things but replace things and there are not yet any independent repair shops. Hopefully this will change.

 

[sundaymorning]

I agree about paying to play but I'd flip that $600 oil change fee you quoted and say that not having all the complicated parts of an ICE engine, Tesla should not charge $600 for some service visits.

I think you can say that $600 is expensive with Model 3, once it becomes a mass market car. But currently, the Tesla MS &X are still considered low volume. Considering that we have comparatively less Tesla than Porsche’s on the road, the rate they’re charging customers is still very reasonable. Can you imagine visiting a Porsche service center when there’s only 200,000 units of a particular Porsche on the road? You’ll be talking by an order of magnitude $6,000, and not $600.

We’ll just have to wait and see what the rates will be when Tesla has a healthy enough ecosystem that reaches the vast majority of owners from most cities, they still need to pump a lot of money into new service centers. Some customers don’t have one within a 300 mile radius, this is going to cost Tesla a ton of money and investor patience. It is a perspective that people here should consider. Technically, almost all Tesla being serviced right now are basically free due to the vast majority of cars being under warranty. Those who are paying, are only paying a minimal partial fee of what Tesla is footing.

Edit: the $600 routine maintenance isn’t required but suggested. My Lexus routine checkup was in the same ball park, if I were driving a Honda then I wouldn’t care about these checkups. But they don’t call it “luxury” for nothing and a Tesla falls into that category.

 

[Brian-MS90D]

I have news for you, Tesla is no longer an extremely low volume $100K per car manufacturer.

There is no universe where this is a true statement. The company has barely sold 200,000 cars in total. Even when/if Model 3 reaches full production volume (260,000 per year), Tesla will still be very, very, very, very small and low volume production. The average price for the Model 3 is looking to be closer to $100k than you imply (although only time will tell this outcome).

For example, Toyota and VW make over 10M vehicles per year (each). Jaguar Land Rover sells over 600,000 vehicles each year.

Aston Martin is likely the closest comparison to Tesla (on this topic), and you definitely cannot take one of those to any shop.

 

[Electricious]

...The average price for the Model 3 is looking to be closer to $100k...

With that statement, I understand that discussing numbers with you is a lost cause with you so I will stop

 

[cwerdna]

I got my LEAF on 12/31/11 and have driven it 72k miles and counting with zero problems. Zero. If I have complaints, there are two: the annoying fake sounds that I'm too lazy to watch YouTube to learn how to kill them off;

Leaf Spy Pro recently added the ability to disable the noise maker via software so you don't need to go trying to pull the speaker. It's intended for those with US '12+ Leafs which don't even have the noisemaker disable button any more but I believe it works on the '11.

It came thanks to this post: Disable VSP sound by software - My Nissan Leaf Forum. Bizarre that it came out of left field as that guy's 1st post on an 11-month old account. Turbo3, the author, implemented it and put it into Leaf Spy Pro.

 

[cwerdna]

The company has barely sold 200,000 cars in total.

No. Tesla confirms having produced its 300,000th electric car

Even when/if Model 3 reaches full production volume (260,000 per year),

OTOH, you have some fanboys (gotta love Tesla's communications style (say something and let people's imaginations run wild) and the "cult of Elon") have much rosier "projections", like at TSLA corporate outlook - Page 77 - My Nissan Leaf Forum, where that guy asserts

Tesla is on track to EASILY sell over 350,000 cars per year within the next 6-12 months. This is not debatable. We can debate whether it's closer to 6 or 12, but you cannot debate IF it will happen. Well, you CAN, but it would be stupid.

and

Within 2-3 years their sales will likely reach 1 million per year at great profit margins.

My reply is further in that thread.

For example, Toyota and VW make over 10M vehicles per year (each).

True. Nowadays, it's those 2 + GM + Nissan-Renault Alliance each doing about 10 million vehicles/year.

 

[Sasmania]

This is pretty funny! I'm actually the guy who wrote the viral article in the video at the 5:05 mark. Didn't hurt that Elon tweeted it out...but I'm not sure how my example is used to make his point?

I'm now at almost 150,000 miles and have only done brakes & rotors at 130,000 miles (first replacement ever) for an additional $800 since the article was posted. Keep in mind that's not even a warranty issue, just normal wear like tires.

Bottom line, that's still only $1500 out of pocket for nearly 100K miles out of warranty - I skipped the extended warranty because I didn't think it would be worth it...and I was right...I actually spent the $1500 the first 50K out of warranty and ZERO the second 50K!

Of course, not everyone will be so lucky but still...

 

[Electricious]

This is pretty funny! I'm actually the guy who wrote the viral article in the video at the 5:05 mark. Didn't hurt that Elon tweeted it out...but I'm not sure how my example is used to make his point?

I'm now at almost 150,000 miles and have only done brakes & rotors at 130,000 miles (first replacement ever) for an additional $800 since the article was posted. Keep in mind that's not even a warranty issue, just normal wear like tires.

Bottom line, that's still only $1500 out of pocket for nearly 100K miles out of warranty - I skipped the extended warranty because I didn't think it would be worth it...and I was right...I actually spent the $1500 the first 50K out of warranty and ZERO the second 50K!

Of course, not everyone will be so lucky but still...

Yes, you have been lucky.

Tesla has increased the cost of their extended warranty twice already because they expect the vehicles to have greater repair costs, not fewer. If anyone knows the situation with repair bills and frequency, it is Tesla and I will go with their assessment.

 

[JayyyDeee]

I have so far been extremely luck that I only had one out of warranty repair that was $300 (coolant valve). Everything else was covered by warranty. I replaced the head lights myself which the Service center would have charged close to $1000 for or worse. But over all very little cost to keep the car running for 4 years and 152k miles. Once the normal wear and tear starts to come down, I will try to do as much as possible myself. YouTube is your friend. But frankly I'm worried. Tesla seems to have the attitude every Tesla owner is rich and will pay whatever repair will you throw at them.

I'm also very concerned about Tesla being very proprietary with repairs and parts. You can't even replace a seat yourself because you would have to program it to the car and without the software the service center has, you are out of luck. Elon's words do sound pretty empty if you look at the facts. Kind of giving the finger to us early adopters.

I find the Elons words often do not hold water. He often makes some bold awesome statement but doesn't follow through on the action but it leaves all the fans/media buzzing with a positive feeling

 

[LCR1]

My prior link was to https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model-s-preowned-warranty.pdf
the new link base on your examples goes to https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/northamerica-preowned-extended-warranty.pdf

from the new link coming from 85 kWh Performance Model S 5YJSA1H24EFP68171 | Tesla to https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/northamerica-preowned-extended-warranty.pdf

Basic Vehicle Limited Warranty
Subject to separate coverage for certain parts and the exclusions and limitations described in this Tesla Used Vehicle Extended Limited Warranty, the Basic Vehicle Limited Warranty covers the
repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla that occur under normal use for an incremental period of 2
years or up to 100,000 miles (160,000 km), whichever comes first, from the first day and at the mileage a used vehicle is delivered to the purchaser, irrespective of the expiration date or mileage of the Basic Vehicle Limited Warranty specified in the original New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

Again I say it appears to be in addition to any miles put on by the first owner. Such that a 73,660 mile car would have coverage for 2 years after the sale and up to 173,660 miles on the odometer.

Seriously click on a link you provided scroll to the phrase "limited warranty" and click on that link it will take you to the PDF.

Can you tell me you interpret that PDF differently?

Yes, I can, the two warranties are ALMOST worded the same way:

period of 2 years or up to 100,000 miles (160,000 km), whichever comes first, from the first day and at the mileage a used vehicle is delivered to the purchaser

period of 4 years or 50,000 miles (80,000 km) from the first day and at the mileage a Pre-Owned Vehicle is delivered to the first Pre-Owned purchaser, whichever comes first

"up to" is the decider there meaning the vehicle is covered up to 100,000 miles, not for 100,000 miles from date/mileage at purchase.

 

[zambono]

I don't think either one would require you to eat a warranty repair in the first year, let alone the next month. The two tiers are 4-year and 50,000 miles or 2 years and 100,000 miles.

That is so odd, why don't they just do 4 years 100,000 miles whichever comes first?

 

[LCR1]

This may be true if you're comparing your Tesla to a Chevy or a Honda Accord. However, that is a bad comparison. The necessity of taking a Tesla to a Tesla repair center should be expected by everyone. Tesla has barely sold ~ 200,000 total vehicles. Does anyone expect independent shops to invest the time and money to accommodate Tesla repairs? Other low volume and high end (those two tend to go together) cars/brands (that still sell WAY more cars than Tesla) also have the reality of the consumer being captive to the brand's service center and parts (for example, Land Rover, Aston Martin, etc).

I don't understand how so many people are surprised that their $100k extremely low production volume car may have higher service/parts charges than a Honda Accord, for example.

I can go to any dealer anywhere and order any part for any car with no questions asked. I buy all the parts for my truck from tousley ford because they have a reputation for the cheapest parts from any Ford dealer, I don't even know where the hell Tousley Ford is, I just order the parts and not once have I been denied. When I need parts local I walk in and get them they may ask for the last 8 of the VIN to confirm I'm getting the correct part but it's not required and they won't deny me a sale because a VIN has been put on some black list.

I can go online and get OEM repair manuals also, ALDATA is used by many independent shops for OEM services and repair manuals, so yes they are out there. Independent shops invest into exotics all the time there are plenty of places that specialize in Ferarri and what not

Will at IDB Racing is known for working on high end cars as well as one off hand built machines, He invests lots of time and money into his shop. Why can't Tesla?
Photos

Norwood is also another independent shop I know, again they can invest in OEM manuals and software to work on some of the most high end and rare cars ever seen on the planet but you're still making excuses for tesla?
Home

If I can take a brand new million dollar Ferrari to an independent shop and get exceptional service from them with OEM parts and manuals, there's no excuses for Tesla.

 

[LCR1]

That is so odd, why don't they just do 4 years 100,000 miles whichever comes first?

Because if they sell a car with 80K miles there is obviously a lot of wear and tear from the mileage, if someone sits around and drives 5k a year there's almost for years for that part already taxed by mileage to then fail as a product of time.

 

[LCR1]

I'm not sure about that, what do you think they mean by "incremental period" I'd still interpret it as being additional miles not absolute miles.

An increment is an increase or addition. So an incremental period would be an 'additional' period of 2 years or up to 100,000 miles, which ever comes first, from the first day and at the mileage a used vehicle is delivered.

Remove the comma and it looks like this: an 'additional' period of 2 years or up to 100,000 miles from the first day and at the mileage a used vehicle is delivered.

So you have a choice, an additional 2 years from the delivery date, or up to 100,000 miles, which ever comes first.

The vehicle is what's covered. So the vehicle is covered up to 100,000 miles, once the vehicle hits 100K it's no longer covered. The word 'or' separates the word 'additional'/ incremental.