Tesla to J1772 Adapter?

[jgs]

I don't yet have a car to plug in, but my plan was to have an electrician install a new panel with a 50 amp breaker. Off that, install a 14-50 socket. Plug the car into that 14-50 socket every night. So, thats about 30 cycles per month?
Perhaps (the light just came on) you unplug the CAR side, and leave the wall side plugged until one declares "road trip". Now 10 plug cycles in a year seems like a lot of road trips.

Exactly right.

If the light stays on - are you saying that I should buy another $500 device (Wall Charger) that plugs (hard wires) into the 14-50 breaker and so we never wear out the sockets ?

I'm not saying that though some would give you that advice. My advice would be to use the UMC delivered with the car. If you find you're not satisfied with it, you can always spend the extra five hundred bucks in the future. Otherwise, keep it in your pocket.

By the way, you might take a look at FAQ: Home Tesla charging infrastructure Q&A

 

[stopcrazypp]

hmm- a cheap socket at $25 that lasts 3 years (or longer, depending on use/abuse), and gets replaced with another $25 socket...or a $80 socket that lasts "forever".
It just never occurred to me that plugs wear out. I've never changed a household 120 v socket (other than remodeling/painting) but never wear.
Thanks for confirming, and giving me some specs'.

Yes, you would do your own cost benefit analysis. If you are comfortable changing your own socket when it gets loose (meaning you know how to do it safely/properly and don't have to hire a electrician to do it), then just going with a cheap socket might be the way to go. If you have to hire an electrician, then you need to factor in that into the costs vs getting a more durable socket.

Unfortunately however, spending more on a 14-50 socket doesn't necessarily guarantee you get a more durable socket. I did a little searching and it seems all 14-50 are already considered "industrial," so there really isn't the residential vs industrial designation as you get with 120V sockets.

As you already figured out, unplugging the car side is really the way it is designed for. The car side is designed for 10k+ cycles, so will last "forever". If you can leave the wall charger plugged-in until you need to bring it with you on a trip, that will drastically reduce the cycles on the 14-50 socket. Before your clarification, I was presuming you might have another EV that used the 14-50 socket, and you had to swap in between (which might require daily unplugging).

 

[L-P-G]

I understand your argument, I just find it to be a bunch of malarkey. Tesla puts no restraints on the site owners, it's their call who can and cannot use their plugs. The electrons don't come from Tesla or YOU (BTW I'm pretty sure Tesla doesn't care, just you guys). All of this hand-wringing about an adapter commercial or not is silly. If the site owner says no, then I'll listen. I'd even be likely to ask them if it's all right. You guys, not so much.

Once again you ignored the part where the business DOES NOT pay for the charger or its install, this means Tesla subsidized the cost and not the business itself, like I said for private use or if the business paid for both the device and the install then yes by all means they should be allowed to do whatever they wish. It's not about Tesla putting restraints on the site owners, it's about having common decency as a human being that if you didn't help subsidize the cost of the infrastructure you should at least be helping in for a small fee. Like I said previously I don't use Nissan chargers because I didn't help pay for them, if they allowed me to pay to charge then I'd use them. I guess some of us are perfectly fine with paying for service rather than finding ways to get things for free instead.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

Yes, you would do your own cost benefit analysis. If you are comfortable changing your own socket when it gets loose (meaning you know how to do it safely/properly and don't have to hire a electrician to do it), then just going with a cheap socket might be the way to go. If you have to hire an electrician, then you need to factor in that into the costs vs getting a more durable socket.

Unfortunately however, spending more on a 14-50 socket doesn't necessarily guarantee you get a more durable socket. I did a little searching and it seems all 14-50 are already considered "industrial," so there really isn't the residential vs industrial designation as you get with 120V sockets.

As you already figured out, unplugging the car side is really the way it is designed for. The car side is designed for 10k+ cycles, so will last "forever". If you can leave the wall charger plugged-in until you need to bring it with you on a trip, that will drastically reduce the cycles on the 14-50 socket. Before your clarification, I was presuming you might have another EV that used the 14-50 socket, and you had to swap in between (which might require daily unplugging).

Yeah- sometimes I'm thick - and the obvious is not. The wire has TWO ends, and I was only thinking about the wall side. Duh - unplug the car!! and leave the wall plugged in. Seems so obvious now, but for months its only been the wall side in my thinking.

 

[davewill]

Once again you ignored the part where the business DOES NOT pay for the charger or its install, this means Tesla subsidized the cost and not the business itself, like I said for private use or if the business paid for both the device and the install then yes by all means they should be allowed to do whatever they wish. It's not about Tesla putting restraints on the site owners, it's about having common decency as a human being that if you didn't help subsidize the cost of the infrastructure you should at least be helping in for a small fee. Like I said previously I don't use Nissan chargers because I didn't help pay for them, if they allowed me to pay to charge then I'd use them. I guess some of us are perfectly fine with paying for service rather than finding ways to get things for free instead.

Let me get this straight, before you use a free J1772, you carefully find out who paid to put it in and if it happens to be another car manufacturer, you gallantly refuse to patronize it? ROTLMAO.

If a site wants to collect a fee, I'll happily pay it. I'm not all that concerned with whether it's free, I'm more concerned with getting to my next destination. If I'm patronizing a hotel or store and they are happy to let me use their free plug, whatever shape, I'll happily use it if I can. It's kind of sad. I think only on a Tesla forum would you see people going, "Mine! Mine! Mine!" like a little kid. The rest of us just want EVs, whoever made them, to be successful.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Let me get this straight, before you use a free J1772, you carefully find out who paid to put it in and if it happens to be another car manufacturer, you gallantly refuse to patronize it? ROTLMAO.

If a site wants to collect a fee, I'll happily pay it. I'm not all that concerned with whether it's free, I'm more concerned with getting to my next destination. If I'm patronizing a hotel or store and they are happy to let me use their free plug, whatever shape, I'll happily use it if I can. It's kind of sad. I think only on a Tesla forum would you see people going, "Mine! Mine! Mine!" like a little kid. The rest of us just want EVs, whoever made them, to be successful.

If a Nissan owner pulls into their dealership and finds a Tesla there charging (or they pull up at the same time), I find it reasonable that they feel they should have priority over the Tesla.

On the flip side of the coin, I don't find it unreasonable that a Tesla owner expects priority at EVSEs that Tesla paid for (EVSE+$1500 each for installation and also extra J1772s in a 2:1 ratio). This is especially true when Tesla deliberately made the proprietary connectors in a 2:1 ratio and put a "Tesla only" sign on the ones with the Tesla connectors, so it's not even a grey area how Tesla expects them to be used.

Your appeal to support of EVs as a justification for your position, reminds me of this incident where a person in a i3 charged at a CCS charger at a Kia dealership and then tried to shame the Kia dealer when they suggested he not charge there (original blog post was removed, but the dealer's short remains):
Op-Ed: The Other Side Of The Story – The KIA Dealer's Version

Basically he appealed to the same argument that the EV cause trumps everything and he should be entitled to charging there given there was a CCS plug. A lot of people seemed to have been the opposite opinion: he should be grateful that Kia had a CCS plug installed and should not expect by default he would be allowed to charge there. People seem to have the same opinion here: be grateful Tesla had the generosity to install J1772 EVSEs and don't expect for a matter of fact that they expect you to charge at the proprietary HPWCs.

 

[davewill]

If a Nissan owner pulls into their dealership and finds a Tesla there charging (or they pull up at the same time), I find it reasonable that they feel they should have priority over the Tesla.

On the flip side of the coin, I don't find it unreasonable that a Tesla owner expects priority at EVSEs that Tesla paid for (EVSE+$1500 each for installation and also extra J1772s in a 2:1 ratio). This is especially true when Tesla deliberately made the proprietary connectors in a 2:1 ratio and put a "Tesla only" sign on the ones with the Tesla connectors, so it's not even a grey area how Tesla expects them to be used.

Your appeal to support of EVs as a justification for your position, reminds me of this incident where a person in a i3 charged at a CCS charger at a Kia dealership and then tried to shame the Kia dealer when they suggested he not charge there (original blog post was removed, but the dealer's short remains):
Op-Ed: The Other Side Of The Story – The KIA Dealer's Version

Basically he appealed to the same argument that the EV cause trumps everything and he should be entitled to charging there given there was a CCS plug. A lot of people seemed to have been the opposite opinion: he should be grateful that Kia had a CCS plug installed and should not expect by default he would be allowed to charge there. People seem to have the same opinion here: be grateful Tesla had the generosity to install J1772 EVSEs and don't expect for a matter of fact that they expect you to charge at the proprietary HPWCs.

Yawn. Tesla doesn't own the locations and doesn't get to make the rules. How hard is that to understand? I don't care that they donated the equipment and the install. The only one opinion I cars about is the site owner's and he is most unlikely to be such a Tesla fan as you are. He's just going to want his customers to be happy.

And I assure you that Tesla's choice of a proprietary plug makes me less inclined to respect their efforts, not more. If there's a J1772 plug available fine, I'll use it, but talking about "priority" is just dumb. If a Tesla owner is there first on the only J1772, I'm not going to whine that i should have got priority, maybe it was the only open plug when he pulled in. I don't know and you don't know.

As for the Kia dealer, HE actually owns the location and is free to be a dick if he wants. I won't argue with him. Similarly, I wouldn't dream of using the plug at a location that didn't want me to.

Waiting for the next entitled Tesla owner to post, "but I paid for it" in 3 2 ...

 

[Hengist]

I don't yet have a car to plug in, but my plan was to have an electrician install a new panel with a 50 amp breaker. Off that, install a 14-50 socket. Plug the car into that 14-50 socket every night. So, thats about 30 cycles per month?
Perhaps (the light just came on) you unplug the CAR side, and leave the wall side plugged until one declares "road trip". Now 10 plug cycles in a year seems like a lot of road trips.
If the light stays on - are you saying that I should buy another $500 device (Wall Charger) that plugs (hard wires) into the 14-50 breaker and so we never wear out the sockets ?

Most of the time the UMC in your car will just be there for "in case" you need to plug in somewhere during travel, usually at your destination. You can leave it plugged into your garage the rest of the time. The trouble comes when you go on a trip and forget the UMC. After that happens you'll want either a second UMC, or an HPWC. Used to be that the HPWC cost three times as much as a UMC.

 

[TexasEV]

Yawn. Tesla doesn't own the locations and doesn't get to make the rules. How hard is that to understand? I don't care that they donated the equipment and the install. The only one opinion I cars about is the site owner's and he is most unlikely to be such a Tesla fan as you are. He's just going to want his customers to be happy.

And I assure you that Tesla's choice of a proprietary plug makes me less inclined to respect their efforts, not more. If there's a J1772 plug available fine, I'll use it, but talking about "priority" is just dumb. If a Tesla owner is there first on the only J1772, I'm not going to whine that i should have got priority, maybe it was the only open plug when he pulled in. I don't know and you don't know.

As for the Kia dealer, HE actually owns the location and is free to be a dick if he wants. I won't argue with him. Similarly, I wouldn't dream of using the plug at a location that didn't want me to.

Waiting for the next entitled Tesla owner to post, "but I paid for it" in 3 2 ...

You seem angry that Tesla owners don't agree with your wanting to take advantage of a charging infrastructure that Tesla created.

 

[davewill]

You seem angry that Tesla owners don't agree with your wanting to take advantage of a charging infrastructure that Tesla created.

No I'm amused that they think they own the plugs.

 

[bonnie]

No I'm amused that they think they own the plugs.

For what it's worth, that's not how you're coming across. And I don't see anyone claiming they own the plugs.

I'm all for sharing. I've certainly charged a few Leafs. Volts, even a Coda here at the house. I am happy to see all the EVs on the road. I think a lot of people here feel the same way.

But this all really just theoretical at the moment.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Yawn. Tesla doesn't own the locations and doesn't get to make the rules. How hard is that to understand? I don't care that they donated the equipment and the install. The only one opinion I cars about is the site owner's and he is most unlikely to be such a Tesla fan as you are. He's just going to want his customers to be happy.

Actually in the video posted by the OP, Tesla does own the location, the unit was right in front of a Tesla store. And back to the original topic at hand that started this, Tesla owns the patents that govern the use of their connector. So certainly they have a mechanism to enforce. I was merely speculating that Tesla would not think it would be "fair use" for someone making such an adapter to circumvent Tesla's destination charging network. Thus I see a low likelihood of a widespread commercial adapter being made by a third party or Tesla themselves.

And I assure you that Tesla's choice of a proprietary plug makes me less inclined to respect their efforts, not more. If there's a J1772 plug available fine, I'll use it, but talking about "priority" is just dumb. If a Tesla owner is there first on the only J1772, I'm not going to whine that i should have got priority, maybe it was the only open plug when he pulled in. I don't know and you don't know.

As for the Kia dealer, HE actually owns the location and is free to be a dick if he wants. I won't argue with him. Similarly, I wouldn't dream of using the plug at a location that didn't want me to.

Waiting for the next entitled Tesla owner to post, "but I paid for it" in 3 2 ...

Well, I guess I just don't understand your expectation that Tesla should install chargers to allow other EVs to charge (that seems more like the entitled attitude to me). Tesla had the generosity of adding J1772 units to accommodate non-Tesla EVs, but they made a large proportion of them proprietary, because ultimately the destination network is designed as a convenience to Tesla owners and comes out of their pocket. I'm not seeing how the Tesla owner is acting "entitled" given they paid for the equipment.

No other automaker is doing the same destination charging network (outside of dealership locations), otherwise you wouldn't be here talking about using Tesla's network.

 

[L-P-G]

Let me get this straight, before you use a free J1772, you carefully find out who paid to put it in and if it happens to be another car manufacturer, you gallantly refuse to patronize it? ROTLMAO.

If a site wants to collect a fee, I'll happily pay it. I'm not all that concerned with whether it's free, I'm more concerned with getting to my next destination. If I'm patronizing a hotel or store and they are happy to let me use their free plug, whatever shape, I'll happily use it if I can. It's kind of sad. I think only on a Tesla forum would you see people going, "Mine! Mine! Mine!" like a little kid. The rest of us just want EVs, whoever made them, to be successful.

No I don't carefully find out who paid for it because by not going to another manufacturers establishment (dealship/sponsored locations) I know I'm not being a self entitled asshole and using infrastructure I didn't contribute towards. if it's a paid J1772 then it doesn't matter who installed it because it's paid. If i pull up to a business and it says Nissan/BMW/Chevy charging only then I'm not going to use it because I don't drive one of those, regardless if my car has an adapter for it or not. It's called being a decent human being and not taking advantage of things I didn't pay for (which seems to be the thing you can't grasp here). You're choosing to ignore the posted rules AND go out of your way to make an adapter for your car didn't come with nor does Tesla offer (in a way stating that you're not supposed to use it).

Yawn. Tesla doesn't own the locations and doesn't get to make the rules. How hard is that to understand? I don't care that they donated the equipment and the install. The only one opinion I cars about is the site owner's and he is most unlikely to be such a Tesla fan as you are. He's just going to want his customers to be happy.


And I assure you that Tesla's choice of a proprietary plug makes me less inclined to respect their efforts, not more. If there's a J1772 plug available fine, I'll use it, but talking about "priority" is just dumb. If a Tesla owner is there first on the only J1772, I'm not going to whine that i should have got priority, maybe it was the only open plug when he pulled in. I don't know and you don't know.

As for the Kia dealer, HE actually owns the location and is free to be a dick if he wants. I won't argue with him. Similarly, I wouldn't dream of using the plug at a location that didn't want me to.

Waiting for the next entitled Tesla owner to post, "but I paid for it" in 3 2 ...

Tesla's choice to use a proprietary plug was one of necessity, J1772 can only go up to 240V/80A, My last supercharge was at 370V/294A which is too high for J1772 to handle.

You're mixing apples and oranges, for Tesla J1772 is not the main standard, being that we can use both plugs we (Tesla owners) should always use the Tesla plugs leaving the J1772 open for everyone else. stopcrazypp said if it was to occur inside of a Nissan dealership then Nissan should have priority and vice versa (which again you decided to ignore and make a different point).

I'm tired of arguing the point of being a decent human being and not using something you didn't pay for (which is being an entitled ass, like you're behaving). I'll take it for what it is. You want squatters rights and don't care who pays for your services.

Don't bother answering me, your hypocrisy is gives me high blood pressure, I'm setting the ignore setting to your username so I don't have to see your fallacies anymore.

 

[davewill]

Actually in the video posted by the OP, Tesla does own the location, the unit was right in front of a Tesla store. And back to the original topic at hand that started this, Tesla owns the patents that govern the use of their connector. So certainly they have a mechanism to enforce. I was merely speculating that Tesla would not think it would be "fair use" for someone making such an adapter to circumvent Tesla's destination charging network. Thus I see a low likelihood of a widespread commercial adapter being made by a third party or Tesla themselves.


Well, I guess I just don't understand your expectation that Tesla should install chargers to allow other EVs to charge (that seems more like the entitled attitude to me). Tesla had the generosity of adding J1772 units to accommodate non-Tesla EVs, but they made a large proportion of them proprietary, because ultimately the destination network is designed as a convenience to Tesla owners and comes out of their pocket. I'm not seeing how the Tesla owner is acting "entitled" given they paid for the equipment.

No other automaker is doing the same destination charging network (outside of dealership locations), otherwise you wouldn't be here talking about using Tesla's network.

Sigh. Tesla released the patents, subject to "good will" and if an adapter is used on a private EVSE or with a site owner's OK, it's good will in my book. Simple.

And now I'll bow out. You guys will never agree, but luckily your agreement is completely unneeded.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Sigh. Tesla released the patents, subject to "good will" and if an adapter is used on a private EVSE or with a site owner's OK, it's good will in my book. Simple.

And now I'll bow out. You guys will never agree, but luckily your agreement is completely unneeded.

Ok, we'll agree to disagree, but my point was ultimately Tesla's agreement is needed for a commercial application of their socket in this case, because of people who will use such an adapter regardless of the desires of Tesla or the site owner (basically people who ignore the "Tesla charging only" signs as in the video). The only way around is the junction box solution using a socket from a Tesla car (which steps around patent issues) or if it remains largely DIY (won't affect the destination network in any major way).

If we see only a handful of such adapters, it won't be worthwhile for Tesla to take issue with. If we see tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands (such that the probability of conflict between someone using this adapter and a Tesla owner is sufficiently high), then that's a different story. We'll see who's right.

And I believe previously we weren't talking about situations where the EVSE is private, but rather ones where Tesla paid for it for public use. I have no issues with people using such an adapter in their own home or for a HPWC that the site owner paid out of their own pocket.

 

[Canuck]

I think only on a Tesla forum would you see people going, "Mine! Mine! Mine!" like a little kid.

I agree with most of what you say but you lost me on this part. This is in no way limited to a Tesla forum but actually very common in a lot of places in today's society.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

Sigh. Tesla released the patents, subject to "good will"

Good faith, actually.

 

[bonnie]

Sigh. Tesla released the patents, subject to "good will" and if an adapter is used on a private EVSE or with a site owner's OK, it's good will in my book. Simple.

No, they didn't release the patents subject to "good will". They clearly stated that they "would not initiate patent lawsuits against someone who uses Tesla's technology in good faith". World of difference.

You will not find the technical details of the proprietary Tesla plug in the patent application. For that, you need to work with Tesla or be prepared to tear some hair out while reverse engineering (and I know of one person who can attest to that).

I agree that this whole discussion is ridiculous, because that adapter is not out there in the wild.

I really wish you'd direct your obvious passion towards the manufacturers that are producing EVs & demand they help build the charging infrastructure, especially because their lower-range vehicles are more in need than those of us who can charge at home overnight & (most of the time) be good for the day (or more).

That would be fantastic.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

On a 10,000 foot view - I thought the purpose of Tesla was to get the world into electric cars, and that charging stations sprinkled everywhere was a key factor for adoption. Why would Tesla want to put landmines in its wake? Let EVERY ev have access to every charger as a goal. (granted, some chargers are better than others and there needs to be a standard plug/current for charging) .
Now, into the weeds....mine,mine, yours, i paid- you did not...seems to be contrary to the purpose of sprinkled chargers.
Is it a common problem, or just a potential conflict?

 

[jerry33]

On a 10,000 foot view - I thought the purpose of Tesla was to get the world into electric cars, and that charging stations sprinkled everywhere was a key factor for adoption. Why would Tesla want to put landmines in its wake? Let EVERY ev have access to every charger as a goal. (granted, some chargers are better than others and there needs to be a standard plug/current for charging) .
Now, into the weeds....mine,mine, yours, i paid- you did not...seems to be contrary to the purpose of sprinkled chargers.
Is it a common problem, or just a potential conflict?

1. Any adapter of this type would have to be able to reduce the power or the EV wouldn't be particularly happy. I'd guess this would make the adapter about the same cost as the CHAdeMO adapter.
2. The SCs are around 100 to 150 miles apart. How do you use the network with a 50 mile Leaf?
3. Tesla SCs are for trips, not local charging (except in some areas where no one has home charging).
4. Tesla has stated they are willing to open up SCs to any manufacturer that pays to use it.
5. Why should Tesla pay for other manufacturers' to charge?
6. It's really weird that this topic even has any traction. Tesla chargers are for Teslas and those other cars that buy into the system (none so far).
7. If you have home charging, your chances of using any other charger are small, except on trips. In general free non-Tesla chargers are there to promote the business they are at. This is up to the individual business.