Tesla to J1772 Adapter?

[AWDtsla]

Yeah I saw it. Any update on the non stub version that only costs one arm instead of two?

Nah, the price is good.

"How long will it take me to break even by super-slow-charging and hogging up Free Tesla chargers?"
"Approximately 10,000-15,000 miles of range"
"Ok, maybe I'll skip it then"

 

[ccutrer]

Nah, the price is good.

"How long will it take me to break even by super-slow-charging and hogging up Free Tesla chargers?"
"Approximately 10,000-15,000 miles of range"
"Ok, maybe I'll skip it then"

As much as you want to joke about this, this is important for certain use cases. Personally, I have a Leaf and a Model X. I would really love to use Tesla's wall connector for both of them for charging at home, so that I can share a circuit and allow either car to charge at the full amount my electrical install will allow. As it is, I have to split my available load between two independent chargers, which mostly means that the Tesla charges much slower. I'm getting by for now, but there are times that it's inconvenient for the slower charging rate on the X. Not to mention that the J1772 charger I'm using for the Leaf is borrowed off a friend, who is suffering through L1 charging for me (the regular outlet in my garage shares a circuit with my microwave, so I can't depend on it for full charging. Not to mention I use ~90% of my Leaf battery per day on my commute, and can't get a full charge on L1 overnight). I would really love to have the real JDapter that is much sleeker than the stub, and half the price. And before you say "you're willing to buy two Tesla wall connectors, what's the big deal about buying the JDapter Stub?" - if it was the only option, I might bite. But it's almost as much as yet another wall connector. And there's a better product hopefully in the not-too-distant horizon, for half the price. Just because I can afford a Model X and some wall connectors doesn't mean I can spend money with abandon. If that were the case, I'd have a Model S for myself, instead of a Leaf!

 

[gavine]

I think a good portion of the demand for this piece is for people wanting to share their Tesla UMC or HPWC at home with a non-Tesla EV and avoid the need to buy a second EVSE. However, you can practically buy an EVSE for the cost of this adapter. In fairness, it's worth the price to have the adapter for more charging options on the road, but I think the price point will limit volume acceptance.

 

[LoL Rick]

For some people, it is a very good solution. I recently bought a Nissan Leaf, so I needed to add J1772 charging at home in addition to my Tesla HPWC. This adapter would have been significantly cheaper than buying a Juicebox and adding a 14-50 outlet to supply it.

Over on the Leaf forum, someone mentioned businesses who participate in Tesla's destination charging program, but the owners do not really know anything about EVs. So they were surprised and disappointed to find out that their HPWC was Tesla specific, and they would like to serve a larger market. Again, purchasing this adapter and making it available to their customers would be far less expensive than installing a companion J1772 EVSE.

 

[LoL Rick]

I think a good portion of the demand for this piece is for people wanting to share their Tesla UMC or HPWC at home with a non-Tesla EV and avoid the need to buy a second EVSE. However, you can practically buy an EVSE for the cost of this adapter. In fairness, it's worth the price to have the adapter for more charging options on the road, but I think the price point will limit volume acceptance.

I have to take issue with the statement in bold. The Juicebox that I bought was $549. Parts for a 14-50 plug were another $50 or so, and I installed it myself. Professional installation would have been at least another $100. So there would have been a significant savings with the JDapter. That said, I would certainly rather have the smaller version at half the price.

 

[ccutrer]

I have to take issue with the statement in bold. The Juicebox that I bought was $549. Parts for a 14-50 plug were another $50 or so, and I installed it myself. Professional installation would have been at least another $100. So there would have been a significant savings with the JDapter.

It depends on what you plan to do. If you already have a Tesla connector (either UMC or Wall Connector), and just want to share that existing connector with a J1772 car, even the JDapter Stub is cost competitive, because the cost of an additional charger includes additional electrical costs. I've already got the infrastructure (wiring, breakers, and at the moment a 14-50 and 10-30 plugs) for two chargers (as already referenced I need significant charging for both cars available at all times, so I can't share a single charger between them. No way am I setting a middle-of-the-night alarm to go swap the charger!). At some point I'm going to replace my Leaf for a Model 3, and I'll definitely be getting a set of wall connectors sharing the total circuit at that point (so I consider that cost already sunk). So I'm looking at it as nearly an apples to apples JDapter (Stub) vs. buying a dedicated J1772 charger. My ideal solution is obviously paired wall connectors, with the JDapter. If I (pay for) a dedicated J1772 charger of my own, I lose the benefits of load sharing, and then I have to get rid of it when I get a Model 3. If I go with JDapter (Stub), I get the load sharing (and now, because I can then justify that purchase earlier), and I can keep it when I get the Model 3 so that any visitors that come with a J1772 car can still charge at my house, using my existing chargers. Win-win-win.

That said, I would certainly rather have the smaller version at half the price.

The only reason I'm still waiting. Cause I totally agree with you here!

 

[Jabbahop]

Dumb question but would the adapter work with a Tesla 100 amp HPWC on a non-tesla car with lower power charger (we have a Volt and i3 in addition to Model s with the Dual charger.

 

[ccutrer]

Dumb question but would the adapter work with a Tesla 100 amp HPWC on a non-tesla car with lower power charger (we have a Volt and i3 in addition to Model s with the Dual charger.

Yes. The charger advertises how much is available, then the car takes what it can. There is some amount of confusion about if non-Tesla cars will respect the advertised power rate changing during a charge (i.e. load sharing, when another car plugs in to another plug on the same circuit). But if you just have a single old school HPWC, putting the adapter on and plugging into a Volt or i3 should definitely work.

 

[TexasEV]

Over on the Leaf forum, someone mentioned businesses who participate in Tesla's destination charging program, but the owners do not really know anything about EVs. So they were surprised and disappointed to find out that their HPWC was Tesla specific, and they would like to serve a larger market. Again, purchasing this adapter and making it available to their customers would be far less expensive than installing a companion J1772 EVSE.

So they would like to take the free stuff from Tesla, which Tesla provides for the convenience of its customers and as marketing for both Tesla and the destination, and then buy an adapter so others can take advantage of it? Did someone miss class the day they taught business ethics? Actually Tesla will even provide a J1772 along with two HPWCs for a busy enough location, which seems amazingly generous.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

Actually Tesla will even provide a J1772 along with two HPWCs for a busy enough location, which seems amazingly generous.

I was coming here to say this. Seems to be forgotten in these discussions.

 

[ccutrer]

So they would like to take the free stufff from Tesla, which Tesla provides for the convenience of its customers and as marketing for both Tesla and the destination, and then buy an adapter so others can take advantage of it? Did someone miss class the day they taught business ethics? Actually Tesla will even provide a J1772 along with two HPWCs for a busy enough location, which seems amazingly generous.

While I'm not saying it's the best possible behavior, does Tesla stipulate in any sort of contract how the wall connectors are to be used after Tesla provides them? At that point, they're a gift from Tesla, and the destination location owns them, no? Do you also get mad at family if they return a Christmas present you gave them, because they realize a slightly different model might work better for them? I know your feelings might be hurt as the gift giver, but it's not necessarily "wrong" or "immoral".

 

[LoL Rick]

Tesla's mission is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy. So everything needs to be weighed against that mission. It's why they provide J1772 stations in some cases - because all EVs support that goal. But just as in my case, there are installation costs associated with a second station, and the wiring of the business may not even support it without significant expense. But the adapter efficiently expands the utility of existing equipment, further supporting the mission.

 

[TexasEV]

While I'm not saying it's the best possible behavior, does Tesla stipulate in any sort of contract how the wall connectors are to be used after Tesla provides them? At that point, they're a gift from Tesla, and the destination location owns them, no? Do you also get mad at family if they return a Christmas present you gave them, because they realize a slightly different model might work better for them? I know your feelings might be hurt as the gift giver, but it's not necessarily "wrong" or "immoral".

I don't think Tesla's feelings would be hurt if the destination decided to return the "gift".

 

[TexasEV]

Tesla's mission is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy. So everything needs to be weighed against that mission. It's why they provide J1772 stations in some cases - because all EVs support that goal. But just as in my case, there are installation costs associated with a second station, and the wiring of the business may not even support it without significant expense. But the adapter efficiently expands the utility of existing equipment, further supporting the mission.

Furthering the mission requires Tesla to be financially successful. Destination charging is one form of marketing towards that goal. It's one reason to buy a Tesla when there will be competing brands out there one day also making compelling cars (only because of Tesla, I might add). Narrowing the distinction between Tesla and other EVs isn't good for Tesla, which in the long run isn't good for the mission.

Remember the unofficial motto of "nonprofit" Catholic hospitals-- No margin, no mission.

 

[stopcrazypp]

So they would like to take the free stuff from Tesla, which Tesla provides for the convenience of its customers and as marketing for both Tesla and the destination, and then buy an adapter so others can take advantage of it? Did someone miss class the day they taught business ethics? Actually Tesla will even provide a J1772 along with two HPWCs for a busy enough location, which seems amazingly generous.

While I'm not saying it's the best possible behavior, does Tesla stipulate in any sort of contract how the wall connectors are to be used after Tesla provides them? At that point, they're a gift from Tesla, and the destination location owns them, no? Do you also get mad at family if they return a Christmas present you gave them, because they realize a slightly different model might work better for them? I know your feelings might be hurt as the gift giver, but it's not necessarily "wrong" or "immoral".

The new gen 2 destination HPWCs can be configured to not allow non-Teslas to charge (different protocol than standard J1772). So Tesla doesn't need to stipulate in any contract at all, they just toggle the switch when installing the HPWCs. You can however still use this type of adapter on the older ones (and gen 2 ones with legacy mode activated) and the home HPWCs.

However, the idea behind the destination charger network, is that it is primarily for Tesla owners (main reason why Tesla donates not only the charger, but also to installation costs). If the destination has non-Teslas they want to serve, they should ask Tesla about the extra J1772.

For Europe, where an adapter is not required to connect to HPWCs (Tesla uses the same Type 2 connector as standard EVs there), the first 2 HPWCs destination chargers are configured Tesla-only, and 3+ are configured for legacy. That seems to be the general expectation by Tesla.

More information on the Roadster thread:
Roadster on destination charging doesn't work outside of North America

 

[ccutrer]

I don't think Tesla's feelings would be hurt if the destination decided to return the "gift".

I think you missed the point. I'm not talking about returning the charger to Tesla. I'm talking about that once Tesla gives the destination the charger, its theirs to do what they will. In the relative's gift case, they would return it to the store in exchange for a slightly different item, instead of to you as the gift giver. I guess the analogy does break down a little because in the Tesla case, the same entity is the manufacturer, distributor, retailer, and gift giver of the item. There's always the second-hand market, though, that a business could sell their wall connector to a third party, and use the proceeds to purchase a J1772 charging station.

I'm not familiar with any contractual details of the destination charger agreements. If there's some paperwork that says "These chargers are for use only with Tesla vehicles" then it's definitely "wrong" of a business to purchase a JDapter (or equivalent) to offer to their non-Tesla EV clientele. If there's not such language, it's gray area. It's a Tesla branded charger with a Tesla specific connector on it, so it's implied that the charger is just for Teslas, and the availability of a JDapter-equivalent was simply unforeseen. Yes, there's the stated goal of bringing sustainable transport of any form, and then the argument that in order to do that Tesla needs to make money. We can look to European destination chargers though, where Teslas use the same standard Mennekes Type 2 connector as every other EV. My understanding is that Tesla provides the business with the choice to allow non-Tesla EVs to charge or not (by flipping a switch and requiring digital communications, rather than analog, which other EVs don't support). Presumably Tesla would flip that switch on any wall connectors that they retain control of. This seems to me that if Tesla is okay with the business deciding if non-Teslas can charge in Europe, they wouldn't have a problem with a US business making the same "choice" by providing their clientele with a JDapter-equivalent.

 

[TexasEV]

I didn't miss the point. Maybe I should have added a .

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think you missed the point. I'm not talking about returning the charger to Tesla. I'm talking about that once Tesla gives the destination the charger, its theirs to do what they will. In the relative's gift case, they would return it to the store in exchange for a slightly different item, instead of to you as the gift giver. I guess the analogy does break down a little because in the Tesla case, the same entity is the manufacturer, distributor, retailer, and gift giver of the item. There's always the second-hand market, though, that a business could sell their wall connector to a third party, and use the proceeds to purchase a J1772 charging station.

I'm not familiar with any contractual details of the destination charger agreements. If there's some paperwork that says "These chargers are for use only with Tesla vehicles" then it's definitely "wrong" of a business to purchase a JDapter (or equivalent) to offer to their non-Tesla EV clientele. If there's not such language, it's gray area. It's a Tesla branded charger with a Tesla specific connector on it, so it's implied that the charger is just for Teslas, and the availability of a JDapter-equivalent was simply unforeseen. Yes, there's the stated goal of bringing sustainable transport of any form, and then the argument that in order to do that Tesla needs to make money. We can look to European destination chargers though, where Teslas use the same standard Mennekes Type 2 connector as every other EV. My understanding is that Tesla provides the business with the choice to allow non-Tesla EVs to charge or not (by flipping a switch and requiring digital communications, rather than analog, which other EVs don't support). Presumably Tesla would flip that switch on any wall connectors that they retain control of. This seems to me that if Tesla is okay with the business deciding if non-Teslas can charge in Europe, they wouldn't have a problem with a US business making the same "choice" by providing their clientele with a JDapter-equivalent.

There's another part of the analogy you missed, which is that if the EVSE has problems or breaks or has compatibility issues with vehicles, Tesla will provide support and replacement. It's not simply Tesla donating them and washing their hands of it for good.

I agree with your analysis. Physical adapters just wasn't a problem Tesla had to worry about (they are only coming out for sale 5 years later). One subtle part I should point out is that Tesla in Europe seems to install at least 2 chargers to be Tesla dedicated. The 3+ chargers are configured for legacy. To clarify, the toggle switch is under the cover and is not designed for general access (only access during installation). It's not really a "choice" given to the business owner.

 

[ccutrer]

There's another part of the analogy you missed, which is that if the EVSE has problems or breaks or has compatibility issues with vehicles, Tesla will provide support and replacement. It's not simply Tesla donating them and washing their hands of it for good.

You mean when I give my mom a new cell phone, I have to help her learn how to use it?

 

[ccutrer]

To clarify, the toggle switch is under the cover and is not designed for general access (only access during installation). It's not really a "choice" given to the business owner.

Yeah I guess that is important. In my mind I'm savvy enough to install a wall connector myself, so that switch is accessible to me. Because I'm both owner and installer. A business owner will be hiring an electrician, and unlikely to open the cover after install.