Tesla to use AT&T for 4G LTE

[ecarfan]

I am considering purchase of a Model S with dual motors. It does not have LTE. That is a deal breaker. Audi does have LTE in the A6 and A3.

So you are interested in a dual motor Tesla, with all the amazing advantages that state-of-the-art long-range EV has to offer, but you instead will buy an AUDI ICE because it has LTE and the Tesla does not.

If that is the case, I recommend you go with the AUDI. I don't think you will be happy with any EV currently on the market, since it appears that you consider the numerous advantages of an EV less important than having a slightly faster web browser in your car (all LTE would get you in a Tesla is slightly faster browsing, the Tesla nav and streaming media works just fine on 3G, in my experience, in fact in more remote areas of California where I have been the 3G signal is more reliable than the LTE signal).

Oh wait, does AUDI even have a web browser in their cars?

 

[flankspeed8]

For everyone who keeps saying that 3g (a 13 year old mobile standard) is adequate in 2015, what assurance do you have that at&t is going to continue to maintain this network with appropriate resources? What works fine now could either slowly or rapidly decline as at&t shifts spectrum. Each market is also treated differently. Bottom line, it doesn't make sense for Tesla not to jump on 4G LTE when even GM is across the board with their 2015's. I had a 2003 Saab which OnStar was made obsolete 2 years later after the legacy analog network was decommed. BTW, in that case, there was no free retrofit even though the car was still under warranty.

 

[ecarfan]

Of course new, faster cell data standards will always develop in the future and at some point older standards will no longer be supported. That is inevitable. Someday LTE will disappear. Consumer electronics are continually being made obsolete as new technologies supersede older technologies.

If Tesla continues to pay AT&T to support 3G so that Tesla customers can use it then AT&T will continue to support their 3G network. But at some point 3G will go away. I'm not denying that!

I'm saying that right now, and for several more years, 3G will work just fine in the Model S. I would not delay purchasing an S just because currently it only supports 3G. It is certainly possible that at some point Tesla will offer an LTE upgrade to older Model S. Or maybe not. If this is critical to someone, don't buy the car. But I think that is being overly focused on one minor aspect of the car's functionality. The reality is that 3G meets the needs of the car right now and likely for some years to come.

 

[Lloyd]

For everyone who keeps saying that 3g (a 13 year old mobile standard) is adequate in 2015, what assurance do you have that at&t is going to continue to maintain this network with appropriate resources? What works fine now could either slowly or rapidly decline as at&t shifts spectrum. Each market is also treated differently. Bottom line, it doesn't make sense for Tesla not to jump on 4G LTE when even GM is across the board with their 2015's. I had a 2003 Saab which OnStar was made obsolete 2 years later after the legacy analog network was decommed. BTW, in that case, there was no free retrofit even though the car was still under warranty.

I maintain an exchange database and have found that we have to turn off LTE connectivity due to random data errors. 3g appears to be more stable at this time.

 

[mspohr]

No need to get your shorts all twisted about 3G vs. LTE.
Tesla now has 3G which works just fine for music, navigation, web browsing, etc.
In the future this may be upgraded to a faster connection as carriers update their infrastructure.
The important thing is that the communications module in the Tesla is a plug-in Sierra Wireless 3G wireless module and it is a simple task to unplug this module and plug in a different module to accommodate changing carrier infrastructure. It's an easy upgrade. These modules cost less than $50 (retail).
So... don't worry, be happy... your car works great now and can easily be upgraded to any changes in the future.

 

[GaryREM]

Everyone is talking about the module. What about the antenna(s)? This will make things a bit more complicated, since you probably would have to add this since you would still need 3G coverage.

 

[mspohr]

Everyone is talking about the module. What about the antenna(s)? This will make things a bit more complicated, since you probably would have to add this since you would still need 3G coverage.

LTE uses some of the same frequencies as 3G so may not be a problem. If the antenna did need to be replaced, this is also a simple "plug-in" change that would be relatively inexpensive.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

Everyone is talking about the module. What about the antenna(s)? This will make things a bit more complicated, since you probably would have to add this since you would still need 3G coverage.

I would think that if AT&T decided to abandon 3G altogether (which I personally don't see happening in the next decade or two) then i would imagine they would repurpose the current 3G frequencies into LTE or whatever other technology replaces it at the time negating the need for an antenna swap.

Unlike when analog was dropped in favor of digital there are now thousands of devices that will quit working if 3G is dropped.

Mike

 

[R²B]

I bet the radio assembly has an LTE antenna. Probably just couldn't get a deal with ATT to support it free so it's not enabled.

 

[GaryREM]

LTE uses some of the same frequencies as 3G so may not be a problem. If the antenna did need to be replaced, this is also a simple "plug-in" change that would be relatively inexpensive.

I understood that LTE used at least 2 separate antennas versus 1 for 3G. It's not just a matter of unplugging and replacing an antenna. If you have to run new cables, it will be nontrivial. So, unless Tesla prewired for the extra antennas, this could be costly.

I'm confused on where the current antennas for 3G are since I've seen references to both the side mirrors and the hatch.

 

[igotzzoom]

Yes. AT&T's network uses GSM, the same standard as European carriers. I think it was easier for Tesla to use GSM rather than CDMA, a standard that is less common outside the US an Japan.

The only other GSM option in the USA for Tesla would be T-Mobile, but T-Mobile's HSPA+ coverage is not as comprehensive as AT&T outside major metro areas.

My understanding is that LTE is a variation of GSM technology, and all the major carriers that were formerly on CDMA networks (Verizon and Sprint) are adopting this new standard. The newer Verizon iPhones have built-in SIM cards and GSM capabilities, so they are true "world" phones. I've also heard the iPhone 5 and newer can be switched from Verizon to AT&T.

 

[swegman]

My understanding is that two antennas are required to enable LTE data AND voice at the same time. The iPhone 5 used a single antenna and hence, when on LTE and a phone call was received or made, the iPhone 5 would shift from LTE to 3G. The Samsung 5 (competitor of the iPhone 5 at the time) had 2 antennas, enabling data to be continued at LTE speeds when a phone call was made or received. The car is not concerned with the voice band, only the data band. and hence probably does not need two antennas.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I maintain an exchange database and have found that we have to turn off LTE connectivity due to random data errors. 3g appears to be more stable at this time.

My limited understanding of LTE is that it is somewhat less resilient than HSPA+ (3G/fake 4G) and has less useful range. This has been a problem for wireless carriers using higher frequency spectrum, because they need even more towers than usual to cover non-urban areas with LTE.

My understanding is that LTE is a variation of GSM technology, and all the major carriers that were formerly on CDMA networks (Verizon and Sprint) are adopting this new standard. The newer Verizon iPhones have built-in SIM cards and GSM capabilities, so they are true "world" phones. I've also heard the iPhone 5 and newer can be switched from Verizon to AT&T.

I believe you are correct in that LTE is built on GSM and UMTS.

Back in 2010 or 2011 when Model S was being finalized in design, I believe much of Verizon was still using CDMA2000 EV-DO for 3G connectivity. The transition to LTE began around this time. AT&T operated the largest U.S. GSM/HSPA network at the time, which made it the logical choice for Tesla. Tesla could probably use Verizon LTE today if they wanted to contract with VZW, unless there was some issue with compatibility that I'm not aware of.

 

[bluenation]

a deal breaker!? ooookay

that said....it IS 2015. and this IS a 80k-120k car. LTE is measurably noticeable WRT perf. Tesla IS behind.

but a deal breaker....eh.

 

[evmile]

The funny thing is when I use WiFi at home the car browser is just as slow as the 4G connection. So there is more to it than just the data rate of the connection.

 

[andrewket]

My understanding is that two antennas are required to enable LTE data AND voice at the same time. The iPhone 5 used a single antenna and hence, when on LTE and a phone call was received or made, the iPhone 5 would shift from LTE to 3G. The Samsung 5 (competitor of the iPhone 5 at the time) had 2 antennas, enabling data to be continued at LTE speeds when a phone call was made or received. The car is not concerned with the voice band, only the data band. and hence probably does not need two antennas.

This was only true on verizon. Now that verizon supports VoLTE (voice over lte) you can do voice and data with one Tx/Rx and antenna.

 

[swegman]

andrewket, that is true, because VoLTE is done on the data band and not the voice band (meaning you use your data allotment for voice calls; so much for unlimited calls). In any event, the Tesla is only concerned with data, so yes, a single antenna would be adequate.

BTW, AT&T announced that they will also support VoLTE sometime in 2015 (I believe).

 

[islandbayy]

Still trying to figure out for myself why so many people "MUST" have LTE??? Nothing in the car (Barring downloading the firmware updates, which usually happen overnight when the vehicle is not in use) can remotely take advantage of the LTE speeds. The only thing that LTE would help is futureproofing the car for when the 3g network is shut down, in say 15 or 20 years...

 

[flankspeed8]

The only thing that LTE would help is futureproofing the car for when the 3g network is shut down, in say 15 or 20 years...

3G networks will be well gone in 15 years let alone 20. Spectrum is a finite resource and carriers are refarming spectrum to give priority the the most efficient standards. Connected devices and Machine-to-Machine are advancing rapidly. There were a lot of people surprised when the FCC gave the go ahead to end AMPS service. Many said it would never happen because it was a lifeline service. Well, it did. Much sooner than many thought.

 

[dsm363]

Once 3G goes away Tesla will be forced to provide a solution to older cars. Wouldn't worry about it.