Tesla Total Loss - Looking at Options, everything murky, looking for guidance

[BrendonHolt]

Wrecked my wife 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR w Enhanced Auto Pilot. Trying to find the right replacement car:
1. Have 2023 that can arrive Feb. 7 2023, but research shows it has no more Ultrasonic and they took out the Radar, argh...
Understand the promise of technology, have been a software manufacture for a long time, but there is a difference between alpha, beta and vaporware. As it sits now the concept of Tesla Vision seems to me risky as I see no reason to remove low cost hardware before new platform is supported and in production, if if albeit in Alpha.
2. Looking at Used, many good options, price less concern then having what my wife wants. Of note:

• 2018 was loud, Tesla added Double Pane Glass - This is a required feature so car must be in production and released with this feature.
• Wireless charging is WAY PREFERRED, the plug in before did not support Cases and had to remove phone to charge, or simply plug cable in and run.
• Needs the Radar - Wondering if this is a show stopper, but really why would I not want it may need it when traveling in the Penn Mountains.
• Needs the Ultrasonic Sensors
  

Three simple questions for discussions, again price not in play in the decision:
1. Arguments why we should purchase 2023 even though Musk in his infinite wisdom removed the Radar and the Ultrasonic Sensors. MY WIFE LOVES THE ULTRASONIC SENSORS. She also likes the new Trim Style.
2. What Years will give me Rada, Double Pane Insulated Glass and Wireless Charging.
3. Thoughts on Battery Value/Life for 2023 vs 2021/22. This is interesting since Battery life is not really known to my knowledge not to many people have had to replace a pack due to age.
Sorry for long post, but this is very frustrating, why can Elon Musk just give us better cars, not take features away and constantly change the car. IT WOULD BE SO EASY TO JUST PURCHASE THE CAR IF IT HAD RADAR AND USS, but he is asking me to make a big bet that his vaporware will be available, if so when? He cannot tell you, how will I know.

 

[1965Falcon]

1) I'm guessing Musk had little to do with it. My new Model Y, that I paid the pre-sale price for doesn't have USS. I really haven't missed it. It's nice on my model 3, but more just a convenience and not something that I really need. I can gauge my distance just fine with the camera now (at least backing up, which is the only time I used it). I figure it'll be worked out at some point... if it's a deal breaker for your wife, then look elsewhere but the other EV alternatives have far worse negatives.
2) Radar has been phased out for a while. Your 2018 wasn't using it anymore. Double pane I'm not sure. Wireless charging is such an easy add on, but came standard in 2020.
3) Tech hasn't changed much from 2021 to 2023 on batteries. I think the bigger advances are with the heat pump, matrix headlights, better computer.

Since the radar question is non viable, the real question is the USS. I think a new warranty, better computer, headlights, rebate, make a new model 3 a clear winner in my opinion.

 

[Dan203]

I read somewhere that the 3s still have USS and that they've only been removed from the Ys, but can’t confirm.

My lease on my 2019 is up in March so I have a new one on order right now. I'll find out soon whether they’re there and how bad it is if they’re not.

 

[BrendonHolt]

1) I'm guessing Musk had little to do with it. My new Model Y, that I paid the pre-sale price for doesn't have USS. I really haven't missed it. It's nice on my model 3, but more just a convenience and not something that I really need. I can gauge my distance just fine with the camera now (at least backing up, which is the only time I used it). I figure it'll be worked out at some point... if it's a deal breaker for your wife, then look elsewhere but the other EV alternatives have far worse negatives.
2) Radar has been phased out for a while. Your 2018 wasn't using it anymore. Double pane I'm not sure. Wireless charging is such an easy add on, but came standard in 2020.
3) Tech hasn't changed much from 2021 to 2023 on batteries. I think the bigger advances are with the heat pump, matrix headlights, better computer.

Since the radar question is non viable, the real question is the USS. I think a new warranty, better computer, headlights, rebate, make a new model 3 a clear winner in my opinion.

Thanks, really great advice. Also I am a car detail enthusiast so the new car comes with the advantage of me having the paint new, but then again, I would have to check it for any Factory Defects. USS Value is the question, interesting they stopped using the Radar, did not know that.

 

[BrendonHolt]

Wondering if the Tesla's with the 2020 or above have the Double Pane Glass. Also it was stated the Radar was disabled on 2018 Tesla, wonder if with this news if a future software update will put them back in production:

Tesla says it is adding radar in its cars next month amid self-driving suite concerns

Tesla told the FCC that it plans to market a new radar starting next month. The move raises even more concerns about self-driving capabilities.

electrek.co

 

[cappo3]

I think the 3 became more silent in 2022. My 03.2021 car (double paned glass in the front doors) is just as loud as my 01.2020 (one sheet of thicker glass). I therefore think the sound deadening happened later than 03.2021 and has little to do with the glass.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a modern car without USS.

 

[BrendonHolt]

I think the 3 became more silent in 2022. My 03.2021 car (double paned glass in the front doors) is just as loud as my 01.2020 (one sheet of thicker glass). I therefore think the sound deadening happened later than 03.2021 and has little to do with the glass.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a modern car without USS.

Thanks, outside of glass retrofit wonder what else could have been done to lower noise. Wind Noise would be helped with Glass, but Road Noise would need another solution. I know when my wife changed her Michelin Tires to quitter ones there was a very noticeable difference that was not wind related noise.

 

[ay221]

The newer models also have the lithium 16 volt battery

 

[BrendonHolt]

The newer models also have the lithium 16 volt battery

Thanks for information.

 

[archae86]

I read somewhere that the 3s still have USS and that they've only been removed from the Ys, but can’t confirm.

I took delivery in early November of a 2023 model 3 RWD built in Fremont in mid-October 2022. It has no USS.

 

[TesslaBull]

My 2023 M3 did not come with USS but I can park, so it's not that big of an issue. I'm not sure how much quieter the car is than previous model years, but I have to say I'm perfectly happy with how quiet the car is on the highway. I really don't notice any objectionable level of wind or tire noise. I'm fairly confident that some of the premium luxury brands i.e. Audi, Mercedes, BMW are likely substantially quieter, but the fact that I feel like the 2023 M3 is reasonably quiet leads me to believe that there may have been some NVH improvements over previous model years.

Would be interesting to see someone do a 60 and/or 70 mph SPL test between various model years on the same road.

Also, until used prices come down A LOT, (people still think they can sell 2-3 year old Tesla for higher than new price), its hard to beat a $40-$45k brand new M3.

 

[BrendonHolt]

My 2023 M3 did not come with USS but I can park, so it's not that big of an issue. I'm not sure how much quieter the car is than previous model years, but I have to say I'm perfectly happy with how quiet the car is on the highway. I really don't notice any objectionable level of wind or tire noise. I'm fairly confident that some of the premium luxury brands i.e. Audi, Mercedes, BMW are likely substantially quieter, but the fact that I feel like the 2023 M3 is reasonably quiet leads me to believe that there may have been some NVH improvements over previous model years.

Would be interesting to see someone do a 60 and/or 70 mph SPL test between various model years on the same road.

Also, until used prices come down A LOT, (people still think they can sell 2-3 year old Tesla for higher than new price), its hard to beat a $40-$45k brand new M3.

I will update on our decision. 40-45K was not my finding. My wife is leaning towards an older one like she loved because of the cost of the new LR that is equivalent. Her current vehicle got 305 Miles Per full Charge and had Enhanced Autopilot. Finding a new M3 LR was $52,990 + Destination $1,390 + Sales Tax had us at $58K out the door, has no USS and no Radar. Worse they are thinking of putting it back.

We may purchase the exact car we wrecked, a 2018 for around 30K and wait for HD Radar and Tesla to move BACK TO RADAR if they lose their bet on going it alone on cameras. Big deal to me to buy a car with Hardware Missing, you cannot update missing hardware.
Agreed the M3 Standard is one hell of a deal and really compelling to many EV Buyers.

 

[TesslaBull]

I will update on our decision. 40-45K was not my finding. My wife is leaning towards an older one like she loved because of the cost of the new LR that is equivalent. Her current vehicle got 305 Miles Per full Charge and had Enhanced Autopilot. Finding a new M3 LR was $52,990 + Destination $1,390 + Sales Tax had us at $58K out the door, has no USS and no Radar. Worse they are thinking of putting it back.

We may purchase the exact car we wrecked, a 2018 for around 30K and wait for HD Radar and Tesla to move BACK TO RADAR if they lose their bet on going it alone on cameras. Big deal to me to buy a car with Hardware Missing, you cannot update missing hardware.
Agreed the M3 Standard is one hell of a deal and really compelling to many EV Buyers.

I meant 45k as MSRP-rebate. Hard to quote price with tax as that varies so much. But even with upgraded paint and wheels on your $53k car, rebate gets you to $50,500 net after tax if you qualify for the rebate, plus(minus) whatever state incentive you get. But sounds like you will still come in well above a used 30k option. I fully support spending less!

Radar is important to you for its contribution to overall enhanced autopilot performance? I'm assuming that's the case. I don't have EAP so basic smart cruise is all I really use, which maybe makes radar not as important for my specific, more limited use case?

USS is nearly meaningless for me, and didn't even realize it was "missing" since I've parked for decades without issue. I've read some posts from folks in cities, especially overseas, with VERY small, super tight parking spaces where they have to get within an inch in order to parallel park on a regular basis. I'd probably want parking assist as well for that type of situation.

 

[BrendonHolt]

I meant 45k as MSRP-rebate. Hard to quote price with tax as that varies so much. But even with upgraded paint and wheels on your $53k car, rebate gets you to $50,500 net after tax if you qualify for the rebate, plus(minus) whatever state incentive you get. But sounds like you will still come in well above a used 30k option. I fully support spending less!

Radar is important to you for its contribution to overall enhanced autopilot performance? I'm assuming that's the case. I don't have EAP so basic smart cruise is all I really use, which maybe makes radar not as important for my specific, more limited use case?

USS is nearly meaningless for me, and didn't even realize it was "missing" since I've parked for decades without issue. I've read some posts from folks in cities, especially overseas, with VERY small, super tight parking spaces where they have to get within an inch in order to parallel park on a regular basis. I'd probably want parking assist as well for that type of situation.

Great points, but the issue is more about missing tech then money. I started my post that money less issue, but that said, purchasing the same car or newer 2020 would be a safe option (Punt and wait) since I see some risk in not having Radar as FSD may need it as they are patent new HD Version. I, like many have had camera issues, albeit some great arguments for Camera Only, would be more comfortable if the 2023 RELEASED with all the old features working in the currently SOLD cars.

 

[Watts_Up]

its hard to beat a $40-$45k brand new M3.

And with a new car you get a 4 years vehicle warranty and 8 year power train warranty.
IMO, a new battery and motors are most important than sensors or radars.
With the current tax break and Tesla discount,
if I was in the market for a Tesla, I would jump for getting a new car.

 

[BrendonHolt]

And with a new car you get a 4 years vehicle warranty and 8 year power train warranty.
IMO, a new battery and motors are most important than sensors or radars.
With the current tax break and Tesla discount,
if I was in the market for a Tesla, I would jump for getting a new car.

Tax Break limited so we would get use of $4-5K of the 7.5K. If we punt, we can buy same car in 6 months to a year. LITERALLY was on my way to buy one at the Fort Lauderdale Tesla was going in to pay the down payment and then pay for it when it came in on February 7th, but the LOSS OF HARDWARE is a risk no matter how anyone states it unless they know something the rest of the world does not.
I will punt, knowing waiting on A.) Tesla to make it at least as capable as older Tesla's and B.) They may make an improvement in the next 6 months as they are truly gambling with my house money if I buy now.

My wife literally says she LOVED her 2018, so really anything we buy is good.

Looking at a 2021 with 5.7K Miles in Arkansas amongst many others in a spreadsheet. Thinking, DAMN I WANTED THAT NEW 2023 and MY WIFE SAW IT IN THE SHOWROOM an Loved it, but it will be there in 2024 or later in 2023, with a new HW4 or HW5 refresh that includes the stuff they removed.
Ultrasonic may be lost, but really guys, so cheap and in all other high end cars. Penny wise pound foolish to remove it, but Tesla is as Tesla does.

 

[BrendonHolt]

With Punting until the HW4 and/or HW5 with the new HD Radar comes out on M3 LR 2023 Late or 2024, what are thoughts on 2019 with ENHANCED AUTO PILOT already included vs 2021 built late 2021, 09/21.
What are the main reasons to not get the 2018 I TOTALED that my wife loves and wants back vs the 2021 which she is also on board with.

2019 Built 09/19 $36.2K Total with all costs out the door.
2021 Built 09/21 $49.5K Total with all costs out the door.

Remember intent is to punt so would MAYBE be resold, dependent on wife, who if falls in LOVE, all else is mute as it will remain hers.

 

[BrendonHolt]

Argh, looks like the 2021 also has no Radar, removed in 05/19 according to Tesla. Can anyone here confirm or deny this for 09/21 M3 LR.
That said might be a 2020 M3 LR with 20K Miles and 45K out the door.
Any thing to know about the 2020 vs the 2019. 2020 was actually build 10/19 and the 2019 is actually 09/19 so very close off the production line.

 

[gaswalla]

Don’t perseverate on the radar and USS… they are nice, but did they prevent you wrecking your car? Newer 3/Y’s have the octovalve, better build, and full warranty. Given the timing, you likely could get your payout from insurance and look at getting a new car with the delta covered by the tax rebate. Jut my 2 cents.
(Used Tesla’s are awesome, you have an unique opportunity)

 

[M3_Performante]

with the new price on the M3P with the tax credits....it would be hard not to spend a couple extra bucks on one of those and call it a day