Tesla town hall meetings - Jan 26 & 27, 2009

[doug]

Besides the current controversy that is likely to take up most of the time in this week's "town hall" meetings, I thought it would be useful to list some other questions Roadster customers might have.

1.) The Roadster Sport
What all is included with the Roadster Sport package? The renderings provided that were to represent the Sport model appear to display options that when added up are much more expensive rumored additional cost of the Sport package.
Do the clear coat cosmetic carbon fiber exterior bits weigh more than they do in the standard painted carbon fiber? (I think so.)
There are probably a bunch of other questions about the Sport.

2.) Hardtops
What's the full story about the hardtops? The current talking point appears to be that the Tesla had chosen to postpone the fabrication of many of the hardtops since it is time better spent building the other (more essential) body panels. That sounds like maybe only part of the story. Was there a design/manufacturing issue that made the tops harder/take longer to fabricate? If so, what? Is it resolved now? I'd think that customers would be interested in this since many that order a body colored hardtop would prefer it to get painted with the rest of the body panels.

3.) How is drivetrain 2.0 different?
In Elon's latest letter to customers he mentions that the Roadster's drivetrain "will be at version 2 by June." What is materially different between drivetrain 1.5 and 2.0? Customers with deposits down on 2009MY Roadsters should probably like to know what they're getting and how is it expected to affect performance and efficiency. Will all 2009MY cars get drivetrain 2.0?

4.)What are the full terms of the $12,000 battery replacement offer?

5.)The Mobile Charger
Customers that have already received their Roadsters and paid $350 to $500 for a mobile charger, expected to get a versatile charging cable (with a set of adapters) able to be used for both 120 and 240 Volt outlets. Instead they got a charging cable that can only be used for 120V. Are they owed a 240V mobile charging cable when it becomes available? As I understand it, the $1500 240V/30A Mobile Connector cannot currently be legally sold do to regulations. Does Tesla have a time frame for when it will become available?

 

[TEG]

There were rumors that the hardtops had some sort of leakage issue (wind noise or rain, not sure). I gather since we see more cars with hardtops now this is probably solved.

What about the various reports showing 300+ BHP for Eurospec roadsters? No official correction, so are Eurospec roadsters really going to have more than 300bhp?

We know that news of 'Model S' is likely coming soon, so it would be temping to ask about it, but I think it is probably best to keep these meetings focused on the Roadster, and get clarification on the upcoming changes. Changes in these areas:

#1: Price changes for MY2008 customers.
#2: Specs, packaging and pricing for MY2009 'Base' customers.
#3: Specs, packaging and pricing for 'Sport' customers.

If DT2.0 really does become a standard feature on MY2009 then I would expect that performance would likely improve, so I am not sure if the DT upgrade mentioned for the Sport will actually make it better than the base model in that regard.

We know that DT1.5 is said to have 248bhp, 276ft-lb torque, 14K redline.
Here they say:

Roadster Sport with 292 bhp...
This new powertrain will be the same one used by Model S

So, is there a difference between the Roadster sport drivetrain (with a "hand wound stator") and DT2.0?

Perhaps we should start tracking DT amps rather than just bhp & torque...

DT1.0: 640amps rms 248bhp (185kW), ~200ft/lb (~270Nm)
DT1.5: 850amps rms 250bhp (186kW), 276ft/lb (375Nm)
DT1.5+: ? amps rms 288bhp (215kW), ?torque?
DT2.0: ???amps rms 300+bhp? 300ft/lb? (400Nm?)

Does the Roadster sport use DT2.0 or some sort of DT1.5+?
Which drivetrain are they using for the 'base' MY2009 US Roadsters?
Which drivetrain are they using for the 'sport' MY2009 US Roadsters?
Which drivetrain are they using for the EuroSpec 2009 Roadsters?

It sounded like the extra power and performance were a big reason to want the 'Sport' model, but if DT2.0 is standard on all 2009s then they all may get the performance boost. I think clarification on the 2009 Roadsters is as important as sorting out pricing for those sticking with their 2008 order.

 

[doug]

Good questions. I'd prefer not to spend too much of this thread speculating about the answers since they should be forthcoming, assuming the questions get asked.

 

[Joseph]

Store locations? Locations in New York, Chicago, Miami and Seattle are all supposed to happen in 2009, first quarter. Considering how fast the first two stores went up, I'd imagine they're not far behind schedule.

At the Miami Tesla event I was told they would have a contract signed on the exact location of the South Florida store in six weeks. I think six weeks have just about ticked by since December 11th...

Someone please ask for exact addresses on their future Tesla stores.:biggrin:

"I'd prefer not to spend too much of this thread speculating about the answers..."

Agreed.

 

[Cobos]

If someone can somehow get a date for the Model S reveal I would be very happy. I've heard Q2 2008, and then Q1 2009 for a long time now... And actual date to look forward to would be very nice.

Cobos

 

[WarpedOne]

Roadster Sport with 292 bhp...
This new powertrain will be the same one used by Model S

This does not make sense.
Roadster sport has motor with handwound stator. Thay cannot build enough such motors for a thousand roadsters a year, but they will do it for tens of thousands of Model S'?

 

[stopcrazypp]

This does not make sense.
Roadster sport has motor with handwound stator. Thay cannot build enough such motors for a thousand roadsters a year, but they will do it for tens of thousands of Model S'?

I noticed that too, but I just regarded it as error by the press.

 

[mpt]

Can they confirm that there will be no further changes to the spec for 2009MY 'deposited' owners?

My fear is that DT 2.0 might be a reduction in current spec. something to make the car cheaper yet. Just my paranoia at this point but would push more people to the lucrative sport option.

 

[graham]

Part of Tesla's justification for retroactively raising the Roadster price is that owners should receive about the same amount of money back from the government.

Does this mean that when Tesla receives its own money it has requested from the government it plans to proportionately drop the price of the Roadster?

Will this price drop be retroactive as well? (in the form of a refund?)

:smile:

 

[SteveF]

Surely someone on this forum attended last night's meeting in LA? Come on, it's time to spill!

 

[SteveF]

I'll answer my own question, since I don't know if "Eric and Renee" from the owners community post here:

"The meeting last night was very civil with invited prospective customers asking a lot of basic questions. There were no loud voices and the Pro-Tesla camp outweighed the anti-price increase dissenters.

The upshot from Elon. We had to do it. That's the way it is. You can have a refund.

There was a lot of talk from the front and in groups afterwards but honestly, the whole time there was a loud voice in my head screaming, "I don't care it's another 7.5 thousand dollars for me".

It's been said that the CEO does not know how to deal with people. I say he is actually quite manipulative.

Posted by Eric and Renee on Today at 09:20 AM. "

Not what I was hoping for.

:frown:

 

[doug]

Thanks for passing on the info. I guess those going to the Menlo Park meeting now have an idea of what to expect.

 

[TEG]

...invited prospective customers...

Who did they invite? Everyone local who has a deposit down on a 2008, but hasn't yet picked up their car?

 

[Bradleybang]

2009 depositors are also included. I will be going.

 

[SteveF]

I understand that people who have already taken delivery are also included, as there are new options that some may want to consider....

 

[doug]

What time is that meeting again this afternoon?
Don't suppose someone calling in wants to live blog it for us.

 

[Palpatine]

Someone on the TeslaMotors message board reported that the 220 volt 30 amp recharging cord is going to be included as standard.

That will recharge the Roadster in 8 hours or about 4x faster than the 110 volt 15 amp recharging cord.

 

[Tdave]

Menlo Park Meeting just concluded moments ago. Here are my notes from the call without further explanation, which I expect may prompt questions in some cases. Ask away. I'm sure other attendees will chime in as well. I will say though that were a few times of elevated emotionally charged discussion about the price increases. I think Elon handled them well.

My notes...

Electric Smart, Daimler Deal Discussion
Investment from large well respected company to be announced within the next week or so
March 5 reveal of Model S in LA at SpaceX facilities, Tesla customers and select VIPs only invited
Discussion about charger stations around LA
Charge cables are expensive due to low volume and all the safety features in them.
working on more cost efficient HPC around end of this year, "a little cheaper"
220V 30A cable should be all most people will need
"So if you don't need HPC, it may not be worth getting."
next year high voltage DC 45 min charge capability (car change required)

15 cars / week now
30 cars / week ramp up by early Spring

Model S orders taken first from Roadster owners beginning March 5

Very difficult decision to raise option prices and remove standard features from base price
Last round of financing was difficult to obtain.
"If you can get financing by not making money, I'd like to talk to your investors."
"We had no choice"
Latest round of funding closed on Christmas Eve, and we had no money.
My first obligation is the viability of Tesla. Without that we have nothing.
There's no question our communication should have been better.
Tom Saxton published his blog after Tesla gave him info in confidence. Tesla implored him to wait. He refused.
Explanation of negative margin.
This is a compromise. Not compromising would be to raise price to $109k AND take options out of base price.
Reasonably confident we'll still be around (in a few years).
Sold out through end of October 2009
Amount of money raised is enough to get to profitability with a little bit of cushion.
Can't give general investor option to car owners or Tesla would then be a public company.
Last round of investment capital coming at end of Jan (including a few car owners who inquired directly)
Will be market to service cars even if Tesla is no longer around.
Tesla needs to survive, and that is the purpose of all the current actions.

Questions from callers...
Any more negative shocks coming? No.
More on investing options.

Roof would under certain circumstances fly off, so we had to redesign and retool it.
Wind sealing needs to be better, still (on soft top presumably)
Owner doesn't like the headlights. Elon not thrilled about the headlights either.
Technical risks for Model S are much more reasonable due to technology leveraged from Roadster

powertrain 2.0 primary goal is cost reduction
also iterating motor design, battery refinements, but changes are small
really should be called powertrain 1.2 (should he have said 1.6?)

true next generation is what they're doing for Daimler
water cooled

Standard charger is 110V, not 220V
Improvement needs to occur with connector and outlet on car

$40M will last to profitability on Roadster
Powertrain business is already profitable
Current Model S expenditures will be from current profit cash flow until further funding (gov't) arrives.
Title 17 funding should be settled in Q2 (after land impact assessment). This is plan B
ATVM Funding is plan A. Timing is very uncertain pending Congress.

How many customers would you have to lose to prove option price increase was a bad idea?
The only way to get the $40M funding at end of Dec was to show vehicle profitability.
If I didn't get more people on board, the company would be toast.
"There won't be any more price increases"

New options in showroom in March
Next generation Roadster not for at least 3 years from now.
Some European sales will be delivered before 2009 US owners, but quite minimal.
Powertrain shipped from US to Europe for final assembly of European cars.

Deposits not returned if Tesla goes out of business. Become unsecured creditors of liquidated company.

First Model S rolls off line 24 months after they get funding for the Model S program.
A few thousand in first year. 15k-20k production rate by end of 2011.
Model S Platform is a skateboard type with different top designs that could be fitted for different future models (e.g. SUV, etc)
Drivable prototype of Model S on March 5 unveiling.

Roadster customer will automatically be put in front of the Model S queue, even 2 years from now.

 

[mpt]

I jotted my notes down at Tesla Town Hall meeting with owners - News - PlanetTesla

The message; It's a business, there's risk, this is life... sorry about that.

 

[dpeilow]

Nice write ups guys, thanks. Guess I can sleep now :smile: