Tesla Trade In Value Is Bizarre, What Is Our 2016 S P100D Worth?

[juice15e]

LOL, Yea right.....The Goverment is paying everyone that buys a Tesla $7500. LOL. So uninformed. You don't need to read the articles. I posted the relevant info from each one that tells how the credit works and each one backs up what I have said,


Max, you hit the nail on the head......If your liability when you file at the end of the year on I think it is line 41 is less then $7500 you only get what is listed on your year end liability, that simple. So may people just assume that they will get the full $7500 credit and when they file their taxes at the end of the year find out they only get to take part of the $7500 credit. The way it is advertised shows a total deduction for $7500 will be for everyone. Although they do say contact your tax professional for further information.

This thread is getting comical...

Line 47 on your 1040 is your total TAX LIABILITY for the year. The amount of tax credit you can get for buying a Tesla is the lesser amount of either what is on line 47 (an any other tax credits you have) or $7500. I.E. - if line 47 says $2500... then all you can get is $2500.

Line 47 and the effect of the tax credit is calculated on your 1040 BEFORE you factor in what you withheld during the year. The amount you withhold from your paycheck has NO EFFECT on what you can claim in regards to the tax credit.

This is 2nd grade math and exceedingly simple. Just read the 1040 and the form 8936... it can't get much clearer than this.

In your case based on the example you have provided in previous answers... my guess is you only had $2500 in total tax liability for the year or you are completely full of it and trolling.

 

[juice15e]

It was listed in an article. I will try to find it again. It was mentioning what I said about not everyone gets the entire $7500 credit. Tax liability is all dependent on income, withholding, other income or losses because of stocks and bonds, filing single or married. I agree that most people that can afford a Tesla tend to have higher tax liabilities. But as the article also mentioned many of these upper income individuals have more loopholes to take advantage of to help offset their liability. That is all I was saying.

Tax liability has NOTHING to do with what you withhold!

Show me on a tax form where withholding has any effect on your tax liability.

 

[u00mem9]

He just didn't comprehend what his father-in-law and his brother-in-law meant by the word "owe"...He thinks, if you don't get a refund, you "owe" taxes. If you get a refund, you don't "owe" anything.

I hate that I can translate the tard language, but that is the crux of his confusion...so, you can forget trying to refer him to a tax form line. Just give up and offer him another glass of eggnog like his family.

 

[alapd]

Ok guys, this is getting ridiculous. Maybe he just didn't earn enough to have a $7500 tax liability? Maybe he's just living on interest income and earned 30-40k, therefore he didn't get the full credit?

That is the only way I can understand how any of his answers make sense. Otherwise, total troll or total fool.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

So uninformed

Correct - it appears you are completely uniformed.

 

[Bet TSLA]

I am done beating a dead subject. The Articles clearly explain the process and is exactly what I had been saying.

This is a simple explanation: Just watch the first minute of this video.

As He Says At The 28th Second Of The Video, WRONG. You Don't Just Get $7500 Back.

Good Luck To Everyone. I Was Not Trolling Here And Had No Intention Of Getting Off The Subject Of Trade In Values.

Uh, wow! Apparently you really can't fix stupid.

I got none of my potential $7500 rebate. I'm retired. I lost money in the stock market that year. I paid no taxes. So no rebate.

 

[Ulmo]

The biggest explanation I can think of for the drop off is Model S and Model X have gone through significant vehicle upgrades in just these few months.

This in turn has lowered values on inventory vehicles.

I agree. There's been quite a recent spurt of upgrades. It severely impacted the price of the Tesla Model S I recently sold.

 

[mmd]

@A2Sirbill , It is clear that you don't believe the replies here and have read too many articles.
If you bought the car in 2016, check your 2016 form 1040. If your tax on line 47 was >= $7500 and you didn't get a credit for $7500, you shouldn't waste time filing an amendment. I suggest you download Taxcut or Turbo tax for $40 or so, and try plugging in the numbers to convince yourself.

In general, the chance of someone buying a P100D having tax liability < $7500 is very very low, so it is a fair deduction for used EV pricing, especially for Tesla Model S/X. Yes, the government IS giving away $7500 and more to promote electric cars. Without it, EVs will have a harder time selling.

 

[whitex]

I thought I would post this to the community to see if Tesla is way off the mark trade in value wise or is it just me expecting to much?

Background:

We bought our model S on 12/30/16. So the car is about 7.5 months old. The car is fairly well loaded.

Model S P100D:
Gray
AP2 Hardware/Software
Premium Upgrade Pkg.
Adjustable Air Suspension
Black Leather Interior W/upgraded Heated/Cooled Seats
Black Alcantara Headliner
Upgraded Carbon Fiber Accents
Upgraded Premium Sound
Fully Opening Sunroof
Unlimited Supercharging Attached To The Car

Mileage is currently 6,700 miles.

The car originally was in the mid $150,000 range. I did receive a discount because it was a showroom car and had 150 miles on it.

After driving the car, we decided we need a little more room for luggage because we travel a fair amount, So, back in May we contacted our local Tesla store and said we wanted to look at getting a model X. At the time the car had about 3,500 miles on it. So we have added about 3,000 miles since that time. In May we asked what Tesla would give us on a trade in. They came back with a price of $125,500 and we could keep the car until our New X would come in. We got busy and waited until a week ago and decided it was time to order our model X. So, we went to the Tesla store again. We asked what they would give us with the additional 3,000 miles on the car and three months older, I was floored.....$117,000. SAY WHAT. They dropped the trade in value by almost $10,000 with only 3,000 additional miles and three months of age added.

When we talked to them in May they told us they typically mark up the trade ins by about $10,000. The last CPO P100D with AP2 I saw on Tesla's site just a short time ago went for around $138,000+. They are selling for upper $130s to low $140 on EBay. I just found it very Bizzzzzare that in such a short time and with only 3,000 more miles they would drop the price so much. Especially when they are getting the sale of a new loaded model X 100D along with the trade in. It is usually typical that you get a higher price when trading in and buying a new car.

So, what is my car worth? I think since it has the unlimited supercharging attached to the car it should go in the $138,000 range? I would love to hear other peoples opinions on value. I think trade in value at more then $35,000 less then sticker price in about 7 months and 6,700 miles is crazy. Maybe I am wrong?

Thanks,

Tesla is a business. P100D is a high profit margin car. If they sell it for $155K, they can produce a new one probably for $110K, so when they offer any more than that, or even that price for a car that has miles on it, they are really doing the customer a favor. Can manufacturers with dealerships don't do that, because no dealer want to pay more for a trade-in than he could order a brand new car from the factory for (hence the 20% driving off the lot price drop, less on lower margin cars). IMO $117K is a fair offer - I suspect partially motivated by customer retention and your willingness to buy a Model X.

 

[shokunin]

That is all correct. So where did your assertion that the average person filing for the EV tax credit only gets back $2500 come from? I would say a majority of Tesla buyers have plenty of tax liability to offset the full credit, and I also know a good portion of Volt buyers did too when I was on those forums. I would guess i3 buyers will be close to the Tesla stats, so maybe Leaf buyers are dragging the average down and almost none of them are getting any credit?

+1, OP, where's your source for average EV tax credit being only $2500.

In order to ONLY receive the $2,500 out of the $7,500 in tax credits, you must have Federal Taxable Income of $19,800 if filing single.

If you are W2 worker and are looking to buy a new $30K+ car (Volt, Bolt, Leaf, Tesla) it's highly probable that they are making more than $19,800 a year.

 

[smilepak]

Tesla to blame for the bizarre resale/trade it value. It is difficult to value it when they constantly making changes to it every 6-12 months. Something new get added, price get tweak, lower models get add-remove,re-add,re-remove. The constant evolution of their Model S.

For example: 2016 Model S 70D vs 2016 Model S70 both produced in the same year, one battery is software lock to 75kwh and another no upgradability.

Or one year no center console, following year it is standard. Or one year air suspension is an option, following year it is standard. The rate of change is rapid.

 

[xav-]

I can't wait for my model 3... $150k for a car is obscene.

 

[whitex]

Tesla to blame for the bizarre resale/trade it value. It is difficult to value it when they constantly making changes to it every 6-12 months. Something new get added, price get tweak, lower models get add-remove,re-add,re-remove. The constant evolution of their Model S.

For example: 2016 Model S 70D vs 2016 Model S70 both produced in the same year, one battery is software lock to 75kwh and another no upgradability.

Or one year no center console, following year it is standard. Or one year air suspension is an option, following year it is standard. The rate of change is rapid.

None of such changes affect OP's P100D which simply has experienced the initial "drive off the lot". Tesla seems to be offering more money for it that they could produce a brand new one for.

 

[number12]

None of such changes affect OP's P100D which simply has experienced the initial "drive off the lot". Tesla seems to be offering more money for it that they could produce a brand new one for.

BUT they have supply issues and waiting periods.

Also they can make money at this price so it's not like they are really doing anyone favors.

 

[whitex]

BUT they have supply issues and waiting periods.

What supply issues? They haven't been supply constrained for a while now.

Also they can make money at this price so it's not like they are really doing anyone favors.

They would make more money with a new car and take no risk if it not selling, plus cost of storing a used car. If you could buy a brand new car for less money in 30 days, vs. 7 month old car with 6K miles on today (which is only true is CPO is local and doesn't require shipping), wouldn't you?

 

[Tampaukfan]

Selling at 138 on ebay? Just because someone is asking 138k doesnt mean that they are getting it.
Used P100D's are not flying off anyones lots, in fact I dont think any model s/x is unless its a sub 70k price.(for the 60/70/90/100s).
From what I have seen a loaded up P85D will move at 70k.. P90D, 80-90k and so a P100D is a 100k car.. I think you should run and take that 117K offer.. no way will you get that in the used market. Look at all the P100D's listed on the EVCPO site.. they are moving and those are just he the ones we can see, there are a bunch more on the internal Tesla inventory site.

 

[cameronr]

What supply issues? They haven't been supply constrained for a while now.


They would make more money with a new car and take no risk if it not selling, plus cost of storing a used car. If you could buy a brand new car for less money in 30 days, vs. 7 month old car with 6K miles on today (which is only true is CPO is local and doesn't require shipping), wouldn't you?

By buying his car as a trade in, they make the difference between the trade in value and the new Model X price plus the difference between the trade in value and what they can sell it for. That's still probably less than selling a new car straight up but it's probably not that far off. For example, if he trades in for an equivalent Model X, Tesla makes $152-$117=$35k. Say they sell the P100D for $127k (no CPO P100Ds currently available but that's about what previous ones have sold for), netting them $10k, for a total of $45k. Assuming a 30% margin on a $150k car, that's close to the $50k they'd make on just a new car. Obviously, I'm guessing at these. numbers but it doesn't feel way off. They also get the benefit of counting a new car as sold.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Used P100D's are not flying off anyones lots....

Of course not. Who buys a P100D at the ridiculous markup over the 100D? First there are people to whom the money means little and always want top of the line. They aren't buying used. Second are the people who must have the best and the latest and are fine with paying for it. They might buy used for the short period of time before any improvements are made, but with Tesla that's never very long. And they'll want a significant discount because it's known that Tesla is constantly making unannounced improvements. So with a value proposition of maybe $10K more than a 100D, that used P100D is dropping about $30K right out the door.

So, seriously, it's a lovely car. But it's not worth what Tesla charges for it. They get it because there are a fair number of people willing to buy it even though it's not worth it. The luxury market is like that. There's a big, big discount on used luxury goods -- check out designer dresses.

 

[Bet TSLA]

By buying his car as a trade in, they make the difference between the trade in value and the new Model X price plus the difference between the trade in value and what they can sell it for.

That accounting makes sense only if they can't easily sell the new car to somebody else. It's possible they are actually demand constrained on P100D's, but then you would also have to figure in (somehow) that they could have sold a 100D to somebody else instead.

 

[cameronr]

That accounting makes sense only if they can't easily sell the new car to somebody else. It's possible they are actually demand constrained on P100D's, but then you would also have to figure in (somehow) that they could have sold a 100D to somebody else instead.

ev-cpo says they have 31 new P100Ds available right now so they can't be thaaat demand constrained. At the same time, if I were ordering a 150k car, I'd be pretty picky about the options so maybe inventory isn't the best gauge of demand.