Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[JRP3]

BI article with the actual suit Walmart slams Tesla with a lawsuit claiming its solar panels caught fire at 7 stores
Reading through it is not encouraging.

 

[humbaba]

BI article with the actual suit Walmart slams Tesla with a lawsuit claiming its solar panels caught fire at 7 stores

I know I'm just being paranoid, but this seems so very convenient that fires -- the most recent of which occurred 9 months ago -- allegedly linked to SolarCity/Tesla solar panels only result in a lawsuit shortly after Tesla makes a public push about their solar offerings.

(yeah, there presumably have been negotiations between the companies that were not resolved to Walmart's satisfaction and the timing is coincidental.)

 

[capster]

Started reading the new book Ludicrous: The Unvarnished Story of Tesla Motors by Edward Niedermeyer.

It seems very negative to Tesla, it seems that the author early was against Tesla, got some hate for it which may or may not have been warrented, and then decided to prove his initial thesis. Most things he write about is know to readers here so not very much useful information. I will give a sample that highlights what kind of reasoning he uses:





If you like this kind of reasoning, read the book, if not then imo just give it a pass...

Don’t forget to leave a review at Amazon or B&N or wherever, all.

 

[sparcs]

Those panels were apparently installed by SolarCity before it was bought by Tesla.

Did SolarCity make panels back then?

It will be interesting to see the scenario of events as to why Tesla didn't inspect and fix all the installs versus letting it get this far.

 

[M3Rider]

Well, he probably got some additional people to put down money at the least.
But, only so many times he can keep saying “Buy now before price increase on X date” before people stop believing.

Actually, not sure if anybody noticed, but there were complaints about price hike from Europe-other, since they didn't have a chance to order yet after a reservation. Not sure if that's still true, but if so, it could be that Elon decided to give them extra time.

 

[Stars aligned]

WTF

Walmart sues Tesla over solar panel fires at seven stores
Walmart sues Tesla over solar panel fires at seven stores

on the face of it - this looks terrible.

No big drop in after hours SP. 222.68 at 17:13 is the last quote I have, 104k share traded. Certainly hope the case has no merit.

 

[stef]

I know I'm just being paranoid, but this seems so very convenient that fires -- the most recent of which occurred 9 months ago -- allegedly linked to SolarCity/Tesla solar panels only result in a lawsuit shortly after Tesla makes a public push about their solar offerings.

(yeah, there presumably have been negotiations between the companies that were not resolved to Walmart's satisfaction and the timing is coincidental.)

Good thing that all analysts are still valuing solar as zero, no reason for the news to affect the stock

 

[NicoV]

20-something L.A. lifestyle Youtuber Shelby Church promotes the 10 best features of her Tesla Model 3 SR+ to her 1.25 M subscribers: (10:03)

I liked that she selected being able to sleep with a dreamcase as one of her top features. I have a dreamcase on order too!

 

[MP3Mike]

Tesla may get some dumb nuts to bite, but not many once you dig down into the details.

What if someone couldn't afford to pay for/finance the solar install but wanted to get the lower monthly power bills. If it saved them more than the $50 it cost them it would be a good deal wouldn't it?

 

[mongo]

No big drop in after hours SP. 222.68 at 17:13 is the last quote I have, 104k share traded. Certainly hope the case has no merit.

From the filing (has photos) it looks like Solar City did a poor job on the install and Tesla/SC didn't perform effective inspections to catch the problems. I'd be ticked off and concerned if I were Walmart.

That said, parts of the filing are wrong (purpose of grounding the frames, normal abrasion of wires), and also includes the whole "Tesla bough Solar City to bail out Elon's cousins" story line.

 

[JRP3]

Walmart nevertheless worked closely with Tesla to explore a potential path toward re-energization ofthe systems. Walmart discussed with Tesla in detail the concerns it had about the conditions it discovered at the sites, and Walmart's consultants helped educate Tesla's personnel on how to conduct solar system inspections properly, including the types of conditions that can contribute to the risk of fire, how to use equipment and tools properly to look for and correct such conditions, and how to follow site safety and inspection protocols. Of course, Tesla was contractually obligated to know all of this already and Walmart had no obligation whatsoever in this regard, but Walmart nonetheless opted to work cooperatively with Tesla employees. By January 2019, Tesla purported to have significantly enhanced its inspection protocols and began a renewed series of site inspections, which it claimed would provide sufficient assurances to W almart to permit re-energization
of the systems that passed the inspections

20. Far from providing assurances that re-energization was safe, Tesla's inspections carried out in 2019 confirmed and amplified Walmart' s profound concerns with the solar systems. Tesla's inspection reports identified numerous action items for each of the sites inspected, many of which (according to Tesla's own inspectors) reflected unsafe or potentially unsafe conditions at the inspected sites. For example, across the 29 inspection reports delivered to Walmart as of August 16, 2019, Tesla identified a total of 157 action items requiring repairs or replacement of system components, 48 of which Tesla itself characterized as reflecting conditions that rendered the sites unsafe or potentially unsafe. Based on the reports' descriptions of other troubling conditions (that Tesla inexplicably and incorrectly did not designate as posing potential safety concerns), even these numbers understate substantially the safety of the site conditions

21. Tesla's inspection reports have revealed, among other things: • improper wire management, including abraded and hanging wires; • inadequate wire connecting practices and poor grounding; • inaccurate as-built drawings; and • solar panel modules that were broken or contained dangerous hotspots. In other words, Tesla itself has now documented the same--or worse-symptoms of gross negligence at not fewer than 29 sites that Walmart's earlier analysis (and the fact of the seven fires) had already made clear. On information and belief, the actual conditions are worse than as documented by Tesla, based on Tesla's history of deficient and incompetent inspections, including Tesla's reliance on untrained, unqualified, and unsupervised personnel to install and maintain the systems

Why did Tesla let this go to court?

 

[mongo]

Why did Tesla let this go to court?

Maybe someone was doing CYA and didn't let the bad news/ situation go up the chain of command?

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

All of these comments on the Wal-Mart thing but no comments on Korea banning VW, Audi, and Porsche?

The market will greatly overreact tomorrow, thanks goodness naked shorting doesn't happen to Tesla stock

Edit: Banning certain models of cars from VW, Audi, and Porsche

 

[KSilver2000]

Taking a glass half full perspective, at least, Tesla solar PV business was already in the toilet. I can’t imagine this hurting their PV installation volume much any lower than it already is.

PV installation business is a race to the bottom. No reason Tesla needs to be in it and throw money at it.

 

[schonelucht]

Wasn't a promise, and stretching a 4-8 week estimate (wide wide release) to a minimum 18 week guarantee is not an accurate representation of the tweet.

It was a promise. "Tesla advanced Summon ready in ~6 weeks! Just an over-the-air software upgrade, so will work on all cars made in past 2 years (Autopilot hardware V2+)." And stretching a 4-8 week Elon estimate to 18 weeks is perfectly reasonable given his track record on FSD predictions.

 

[Curt Renz]

Did SolarCity make panels back then?...

EMT - 2014: Walmart Expands Relationship with SolarCity - Energy Manager Today

SolarCity has completed more than 200 solar projects at Walmart locations since 2010.


GTM - 2017: Reports: Tesla-Branded Solar Panels Arrive in Stores

Before being acquired by Tesla, SolarCity, like many other installers, bought solar panels from several different suppliers.

 

[JRP3]

All of these comments on the Wal-Mart thing but no comments on Korea banning VW, Audi, and Porsche?

The ministry's probe has found that the German automakers manipulated pollution control devices used in those vehicles. A total of 1,261 cars in the eight models were sold in South Korea from May 2015 to January last year.

S. Korea to ban Audi, Volkswagen, Porsche cars in emissions scandal
They are banning a handful of diesel cars. Not exactly a big deal.

 

[Stars aligned]

I’ve written a full outline of this new rental agreement in the Energy forum. But, basically, Tesla gets to keep all tax credits/incentives available, and the renter is charged $1,500 to remove the system if they want to stop making monthly payments. That $1,500 will likely deter some from canceling the subscription because that’s worth almost 2 years of rental for the basic 3.8kW system. Also, the agreement does not allow the renter to purchase the system until after 5 years. And the purchase price even after the 5 years wait time will be at the original price when contract was signed (currently $2.50/W)—not at a likely lower price in 5 years (no residual price like with a car lease).

In the end, this is a crappy deal for the consumer in the long run just like any other PV PPA/lease deals.

Tesla may get some dumb nuts to bite, but not many once you dig down into the details.

I still think there is a 2nd agreement with the utility which includes cash flow. After all, the renter will not use 100% of the energy. And if he quits the contract but leaves the cells on the roof, those will still produce energy which supposingly goes to the utility for which Tesla likely gets paid in one or another form.

 

[mongo]

It was a promise. "Tesla advanced Summon ready in ~6 weeks! Just an over-the-air software upgrade, so will work on all cars made in past 2 years (Autopilot hardware V2+)." And stretching a 4-8 week Elon estimate to 18 weeks is perfectly reasonable given his track record on FSD predictions.

It is not reasonable* to only have the link to a Tweet without the actual text and then summarize it inaccurately.
Had the post quoted Elon, then the 2020 comment would have been an acceptable addition*.

*as if I am the keeper of standards

 

[Artful Dodger]

Thoughts from Sandy Munro interview | Sean Mitchell (2 hours ago)