Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[ggr]

Private jets get around 5mpg and carry 10,000 gallons of fuel. On the flip side, it is not the bottom 99% that is creating 130mpg cars. After Elon conquerors the car market, I would love to see him take on the airline industry.

The Gulfstream G650 is an intercontinental private jet, about the biggest such you can buy that isn't a converted airliner, and it carries at most just over 7,000 gallons of fuel. Something like an Embraer Phenom 100EV, one of the darlings of netjets, carries 450 gallons. Exaggeration of figures is one of the things that makes real, rational discourse about climate change hard. Please don't post stuff that is so easily refuted.

Edit: Jet fuel is usually measured in pounds, not gallons (6.75 pounds/gallon). Maybe you were just getting units mixed up.

 

[ggr]

(proof that you are not Elon btw)

(a) Elon makes mistakes too, so that proves nothing, and
(b) it could just be a head fake.

 

[Steve m]

Private jets get around 5mpg and carry 10,000 gallons of fuel. On the flip side, it is not the bottom 99% that is creating 130mpg cars. After Elon conquerors the car market, I would love to see him take on the airline industry.

So this jet can fly around the world twice without refuelling? Why?

 

[Tslynk67]

We're gonna end green today

Just a hunch

Not with volume this low we ain't.

 

[Reinhard]

So this jet can fly around the world twice without refuelling? Why?

Because I was lazy and didn't want to calculate and type out 7164 gallons with 1.046 mpg. It's actually more interesting to me now. That is terrible mpg.

 

[dww12]

No one should mistake TSLA for a momentum stock. If you're waiting for the stock to good up before you buy, you're going to lose money. The shorts are too effective at reversing upward movement and sustaining downward momentum. Most of the time the stock price is in a downward trend. The exceptions to that are where the price shoots up quickly and unexpectedly. So the best time to buy is toward the end of a very long downward trend, before the stock shows any promise of recovery or even halting the downward trend.

Well I’m not getting it right now.

1. G3 very close to pushing out it’s first car
1a. China exempted Tesla from import tax
2. V10 starting to roll out and Smart Summon should be part of it, FSD revenue secured
3. Plaid just Osborned the Taycan
3a. We know Plaid will be in 3 cars, so not an overly expensive one off for Roadster
4. Tesla is now a Nurburgring record holder (as much as the Taycan was), Roadster will kill it.
5. Tesla hopefully sold some Ravens to those on the Taycan fence (you have a car to trade in in 1yr if it is too slow, vs a holding a P car invoice for a year)
6. Mid-east war possible and Tesla 3 is the only real (affordable) alternative as unlimited long range EV driving now that the Volt is dead. Wake up call that ICE is still expensive (more than just $/gal)!!

All these in a week and TSLA flat.

 

[elasalle]

We're gonna end green today

Just a hunch

just a hunch, you might be correct

 

[zzziii]

FWIW, shorts were more active lately

Source: tsla | Volumebot

 

[Fact Checking]

Do you have a source for this?

Yeah, saw a video of the motorized Model 3 Performance front air intake covers - cannot find it now.

 

[KarenRei]

@KarenRei That isn't true. By default the Taycan comes with summer tires, but you can optionally, for $0, opt to have it come with all season tires. You don't have to pick a tire option, or are you saying if you don't select the all seasons that it would come without any tires at all? (Which I highly doubt as they won't even let you order it without their portable EVSE.)

(The car was on the Mission E design wheels)

 

[traxila]

Will hit even harder when the Q3 delivery report gets published.

Down or up?

 

[Artful Dodger]

Subject: Nürnburgring

A German newspaper claims that one of its observers measured a hand-stopped lap time of 7:23.
In comparison the unofficial time of the Taycan: 7:42.

Source: (article in german)
Tesla-Attacke auf der Nordschleife
Only the part with header: "Handgestoppte 7:23 Minuten – Porsche locker geschlagen" is new, rest of the article is just general inforamtion regarding the Tesla Porsche contest (#Massacre).

If this time is right, a racetrack optimized Model S P100DL should also be able to beat the Taycan record with the normal Raven engines.

The German article's caption reads (image of Plaid Model S below):

"Unser Beobachter lieferte bereits eine erste handgestoppte Zeit von 7:23 Minuten."​

...which translates to English as:

"Our observer already delivered a first handstopped time of 7:23 minutes."​

Below is the blue Telsa Model S seen at the 'ring. Its a Plaid prototype, due to these extras:

• larger front air intake
• body color fender flares
• wider wheels and tires
• NASCASR style rear spoiler
• small black box transponder on the roof? (near right-side 'B' pillar)

So a 7:23 lap of the Nordschleife would put the Plaid S prototype in a higher class of supercars:

34. Ferrari 488 GTB Christian Gebhardt 7:21.63
35. Corvette Z06 Z07 Package Jim Mero 7:22.68
=>
36. Porsche 911 Carrera GTS Christian Gebhardt 7:23.77
<=
37. Gumpert Apollo Sport unknown 7:24.00
38. Porsche 911 GT2 RS (997) Horst von Saurma 7:24.00
39. Maserati MC12 Marc Basseng 7:24.29
40. Pagani Zonda F Clubsport Marc Basseng 7:24.65
41. Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 Horst von Saurma 7:25.00​

You read that right: there's 2 other Porsches at risk to losing their lap records to the Plaid prototype

Also note well this top speed: (to be compared later)

• 911 Carrera GTS - top speed 308-312 kmh (~192 mph)

I've been predicting a 300 kmh top speed for the tri-motor Model S (now know as the Plaid powertrain). This 'ring lap time, if authenticated, indicates that Plaid will indeed have at least that turn of speed.

The important point to take away here (for the unwashed uninitiated) is that Tesla is doing this with a single speed powertrain and 3 SRPM motors. AC induction motors WILL NOT do this. They are rpm limited and lose power past their design speed, limiting either vehicle acceleration or top speed when used with a 1-speed gearbox. (paging @mongo)

Today is a new era in power and speed. Welcome to the future, and the future is electric.

Cheers!

P.S. The absolute record is 6:40.33 held by a modified Porsche 911 GT2 RS (991). Any doubt the Roadster 2 will be faster? We'll find out next year when Tesla returns to the 'ring.

P.P.S. Elon has said the Tesla Pickup will be "a better truck than a Ford F-150" and "a better sports car than the Porsche 911". Zo, tri-motor powertrain confirmed?

 

[VValleyEV]

For Americans, FYI:

Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 141, Minimum Sound Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles

Have an issue with regulations about noise makers being added to EVs? This looks like your chance to have your voice heard. Some sample points that could be made:

• Drivers should be able to pick their sounds, and number of sound choices shouldn't be limited (this is the main thing they're seeking feedback on)
• The same rules should be applied to quiet ICEs, not just EVs; there's no logic to EVs having noisemakers but not quiet ICEs.
• The presence of sound should be able to be contingent on pedestrian detection, and disabled if no pedestrians are nearby.
• Directional sound should be allowed, to limit noise pollution.

You need to write a physical letter. Don't be lazy if you care; do it this evening. Set yourself a reminder. Address:

Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
U.S. Department of Transportation
1200 New Jersey Avenue SE, West Building
Washington, DC 20590

In your letter you must reference: Docket No. NHTSA-2019-0085

The deadline is November 1, 2019.

Thanks!! I added a calendar event to write a letter this evening.

We took delivery on a M3 for my wife on Friday, beautiful car. I am a bit sad that since it was manufactured after Sep 1 it has the noisemakers, unlike my completely silent 2018 MS. Wouldn’t be so bad if ICE were treated the same, and I smell a rat of ICE manufacturers helping to create EV-specific annoyances to slow adoption. But, maybe I am just paranoid and it is sloppy legislation written by folks not paying attention, which would be nothing new.

Anyhow, having said that, I think the way Tesla has implemented this mandated feature is pretty nice. The forward and backup sounds are different (was that mandated?). The backup sound is a high tech spacey kind of noise that changes pitch with movement speed, and the front movement sound is much quieter and sort of a while noise airy sound. I am assuming that a software update can adapt these sounds quickly if and when the regulations change.

 

[Silentk]

Just a small update for those following the Nürburgring record attempt spectacle, tomorrow is reportedly the first slot Tesla has with no other traffic on the track, here's the expected weather conditions on the Nürburgring for the three key dates:

• September 18: 20°C, fair, no precipitation
• September 21: 21°C, fair, no precipitation expected
• September 25: 17°C, cloudy, no precipitation expected

The 21st (this Saturday) is their largest slot, reportedly 2 hours long. The weather forecast should be pretty accurate for tomorrow and reasonably accurate for Saturday (there's no big fronts expected) - but still uncertain on the 25th around which time a big front is expected (or not).

Temperatures are I think not low enough yet to have significant amounts of leaves on the track, which would be a safety hazard:

(I don't think there's any reasonable way to clean a 20.6 km long track. [edit: when the weather is windy, which it often is.])

Anyway, these are fairly good racing conditions considering that it's late September - not as good as the day the Taycan had in August of course: every 10°C drop in air temperature increases drag by about 3-4%, which is a very significant factor on this very fast track costing several seconds of lap time. Colder track surface also has less grip I believe.

It's going to be a nail-biter.

FC/Elon, was it very painful when you had Wikipedia chip implant in your brain? Asking for a friend.

(always appreciate the immense knowledge on this site - OT or not)

 

[scaesare]

There is no such thing as a Raven P100DL

You can order a current S (now a Raven) Perf dual motor with Ludicrous according to the site.

How is that not a P100DL, or are you quibbling with badging rather than getting the point of my post?

 

[scaesare]

Yeah, saw a video of the motorized Model 3 Performance front air intake covers - cannot find it now.

Interesting thanks. Was this markedly different than the Model S motorized louvers?

 

[scaesare]

We took delivery on a M3 for my wife on Friday, beautiful car. I am a bit sad that since it was manufactured after Sep 1 it has the noisemakers, unlike my completely silent 2018 MS.

Be a shame if that apparently easily accessible speaker under the front bottom cowling got accidentally disconnected somehow....

 

[mongo]

As aero engineer I am fact checking you most of the time and I am taking this rare opportunity to intervene.

3.5% more drag at 300 km/hr drops the speed to 295 km/hr. So it's not as bad.

Speed is squared on drag so you have to root square the drag factor (294.7 * sqrt(1.035) = 300).

(proof that you are not Elon btw)

Indeed, drag due to aero is speed squared. However, power due to aero is drag * v (distance per time unit) so for the same power output, the speed impact is cubic. (Wh/km is squared, kW is cubic).
300 / ((1.035)^3) = 270.6 km/hr

Neither of you are Elon

Drag (physics) - Wikipedia

Edit: nor am I, Should that be a cube root (drag vs speed)? 296.6 KPH?
Need more coffee...

 

[StealthP3D]

Ah, no. This is a common fallacy that has been thoroughly debunked. The reality is that the variables that best predict carbon footprint are per capita living space, energy used for household appliances, meat consumption, car use, and vacation travel.

Actually, the graphic you provided proves my point that working-class people produce more pollution than the wealthy overall because there are so few wealthy people relative to working-class people. Your chart showed that the top 10% wealthiest people (which includes many working-class people) create less than half the emissions.

 

[UncaNed]

High Speed Rail is pretty much dead in California, very sad

Rail transport is at the mercy of union strikes. Subway construction, likewise, has all but stopped because union contracts increase the cost of construction till it's just not an option any more.