Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
  • We just completed a significant update, but we still have some fixes and adjustments to make, so please bear with us for the time being. Cheers!

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

Artful Dodger

"Ducimus, lit"
Aug 9, 2018
8,266
101,030
Canada
never saw a clear answer on this (and I am not investor savvy enough to decipher it). Do those numbers mean that it is probable that the stock price should go down on Friday
No, those numbers were collected in answer to a specific question: "Are there enough shares under 'Call' contract to satify the required purchases of the S&P 500 Index funds.

The answer is 'No', and the buying continues...

Cheers!
 

MXWing

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,270
17,738
USA
A good video by Rob that goes over hw many shares need to be bought as the TSLA, and S&P500, price changes. (It doesn't work how most people think.)

Updated Look at Tesla’s S&P 500 Inclusion, FSD Beta 5, Supercharger Factory, & TSLA Stock - YouTube


Yes, people seem to think it's shares, but its weighted $. Less shares are actually bought as share price goes up.

They have to sell off every other company to accommodate Tesla.

S&P Tesla and 499 Friends Index!

Buy calls on TSLA for DEC24
Buy puts for 499 other companies on DEC24.

Trading strategy seems simple?
 

Prunesquallor

His cardinal virtue? An undamaged brain.
Dec 19, 2018
2,786
28,218
Houston/Galveston

CanadaEV

Member
Dec 12, 2014
301
1,477
Canada
It might be prudent for Tesla to 'ease their pain' with a cap raise priced at, oh say, $841.38 for a quick $10B :p

Yes, I think it was the Baron’s article that said Tesla investors don’t like capital raises at all.
Nobody asked me… how are they supposed to build enough factories to produce the needed cars?
Although, I do agree that we may be upon the time where they can simply do it out of their own revenue
 
  • Like
Reactions: MC3OZ

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,150
14,458
NC
I don't know how much experience you both have with options, but IV is already at a rather high level of 74.

Everythings relative I suppose... it's spent roughly 12 of the last 40 weeks at/above 90... and about half those 12 weeks above 100... a peak of 156.8 in mid march, but additional 120+ peaks in July and two of em in September.


The main problem I see with options is it is like playing black jack in Vegas. The house wins most of the time.


That's the upside to selling options- if your concern is the house usually wins, be the house.



That said- I did want to follow up on this from last week-

Well- Even if I let them get assigned as-is I'd still be up a fair bit, net, in recent months from the collective profits on all the times they didn't exercise... rolling em up a bit further just enhances that net profit number a bit more.

Higher SP (if it holds up- remember we were in the 460s monday too and dipped down to the 430s later) just means I'd roll it higher.

Ouch! I commend you for remaining stoic. ;)




So in the end I concluded not only had it overshot my sold call target for the week more than expected, it was going considerably higher going forward short term (at the start of the week I'd expected the surge to wait for NEXT Monday after the S&P inclusion details were to be announced 11-30, but nobody's perfect.)


Based on that conclusion I bought back the sold calls in one account (which had some tax benefit, and those shares are up ~$85 each over my cost to do so close of today-on top of the thousands made on those shares selling CCs that didn't get near assignment in the last few months)- so that worked out ok even if I "gave back" a small fraction of my selling-calls profits.

In another (tax-free) account I had 5 sold calls that I let get assigned instead rather than roll... with most of the cash from that at open Monday I bought 32 January 15 $500 strike calls.

Those are up about $115,000 at close today... (on top of the thousands made in recent months on the unassigned calls I'd sold on them), and I certainly expect them to go...at least somewhat higher...before I get rid of em. Mondays inclusion details should impact that though so we'll see how long I keep them- the ideal plan of course it the same I suspect lots of folks have- sell em at the inclusion spike peak, maybe sell very short-term puts with the cash for a few more bucks depending on timing, then get back into shares (ideally via either puts exercising for discounted shares- or if there's a post-inclusion dip)- if all goes well I'll end up with more shares than I started with at higher value, plus maybe a few free LEAPs or something- or ya know I just screw the timing of all of it up... we'll see.


If I'd rebought those calls I'd only be up, net, about 23k or so. Or only about 45k if I'd never sold the calls that got assigned anyway.

So that worked out alright too.


I'd kind of been planning moving a minority of shares over to Jan or Feb calls anyway, getting assigned just got me doing it a week earlier.


Some entirely not-advice-train-of-thoughting here.... but if you're generally selling realistically OTM CCs for months and making nice if modest regular income and not getting exercised as the stock doesn't move up much... and suddenly it shoots way past your sold strike in short order... it might be a good time to look at if getting back in with short(ish) calls makes more sense that shares for some period of time right after.
 

Silent Ludicrosy

Supporting Member
Mar 14, 2018
800
10,095
Phoenix
No, those numbers were collected in answer to a specific question: "Are there enough shares under 'Call' contract to satify the required purchases of the S&P 500 Index funds.

The answer is 'No', and the buying continues...

Cheers!

I’m curious how you came to this conclusion. It seems like for this to be true, open interest for calls expiring December 24 2020 or later would need total less than ~2.3 million contracts (based on an estimate of 230 million shares bought by S&P tracking & benchmark funds). Did you actually add up the open interest or is there an easier way?
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: capster

Open Interest

Supporting Member
Jun 18, 2018
297
1,275
SF Bay Area
Everythings relative I suppose... it's spent roughly 12 of the last 40 weeks at/above 90... and about half those 12 weeks above 100... a peak of 156.8 in mid march, but additional 120+ peaks in July and two of em in September.





That's the upside to selling options- if your concern is the house usually wins, be the house.



That said- I did want to follow up on this from last week-








So in the end I concluded not only had it overshot my sold call target for the week more than expected, it was going considerably higher going forward short term (at the start of the week I'd expected the surge to wait for NEXT Monday after the S&P inclusion details were to be announced 11-30, but nobody's perfect.)


Based on that conclusion I bought back the sold calls in one account (which had some tax benefit, and those shares are up ~$85 each over my cost to do so close of today-on top of the thousands made on those shares selling CCs that didn't get near assignment in the last few months)- so that worked out ok even if I "gave back" a small fraction of my selling-calls profits.

In another (tax-free) account I had 5 sold calls that I let get assigned instead rather than roll... with most of the cash from that at open Monday I bought 32 January 15 $500 strike calls.

Those are up about $115,000 at close today... (on top of the thousands made in recent months on the unassigned calls I'd sold on them), and I certainly expect them to go...at least somewhat higher...before I get rid of em. Mondays inclusion details should impact that though so we'll see how long I keep them- the ideal plan of course it the same I suspect lots of folks have- sell em at the inclusion spike peak, maybe sell very short-term puts with the cash for a few more bucks depending on timing, then get back into shares (ideally via either puts exercising for discounted shares- or if there's a post-inclusion dip)- if all goes well I'll end up with more shares than I started with at higher value, plus maybe a few free LEAPs or something- or ya know I just screw the timing of all of it up... we'll see.


If I'd rebought those calls I'd only be up, net, about 23k or so. Or only about 45k if I'd never sold the calls that got assigned anyway.

So that worked out alright too.


I'd kind of been planning moving a minority of shares over to Jan or Feb calls anyway, getting assigned just got me doing it a week earlier.


Some entirely not-advice-train-of-thoughting here.... but if you're generally selling realistically OTM CCs for months and making nice if modest regular income and not getting exercised as the stock doesn't move up much... and suddenly it shoots way past your sold strike in short order... it might be a good time to look at if getting back in with short(ish) calls makes more sense that shares for some period of time right after.
Where are you tracking historical IV?
 

Tim S

Supporting Member
Feb 5, 2019
774
7,479
Albany NY
I wonder how many of the new Teslanaires will purchase SpaceX stock since they can now be considered Accredited Investors?

I know I will when I reach that plateau, hopefully early next year. Imagine, holding more than one stock!
There's a thread for that... SpaceX investor's thread

Edit: Judging by that thread, investing directly in SpaceX is not easy. I have not tried yet myself, except for BPTRX, which is ~4% SpaceX and ~40% TSLA. It's up over 100% this year.
 
Last edited:

astrotoy

Supporting Member
Jan 24, 2013
321
673
SF Bay Area
or just use this, put the amount you have now, 10 years at 50% interest and you’ll have a ballpark idea what are you sitting on in 2031:

Compound Interest Calculator - The Calculator Site

humans struggle with compound interest, I know I was. :cool:

For me, the past seven years has been a tale of two cities. I bought my TSLA shares in two large purchases in late 2013 (at 26 postsplit) and early 2015 (at 38 postsplit). I just calculated through this time last year, that my compounded annual return for the two purchases were 14% and 10% respectively for 7 years and 5.8 years, somewhat better than the average long term return on stocks (7-8% compounded annually). Since a year ago, the annual compounded return has been 770%. I used the Excel RRI function for my calculation. One year ago TSLA was $66 per share, and now $574.
 

gabeincal

HODLer / Theta seller
Jul 5, 2016
1,075
5,547
SF Bay, CA
Some entirely not-advice-train-of-thoughting here.... but if you're generally selling realistically OTM CCs for months and making nice if modest regular income and not getting exercised as the stock doesn't move up much... and suddenly it shoots way past your sold strike in short order... it might be a good time to look at if getting back in with short(ish) calls makes more sense that shares for some period of time right after.

THANK YOU. This came handy probably at the right time for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mickificki

Paul_SF

Supporting Member
Feb 12, 2020
303
3,027
US
For me, the past seven years has been a tale of two cities. I bought my TSLA shares in two large purchases in late 2013 (at 26 postsplit) and early 2015 (at 38 postsplit). I just calculated through this time last year, that my compounded annual return for the two purchases were 14% and 10% respectively for 7 years and 5.8 years, somewhat better than the average long term return on stocks (7-8% compounded annually). Since a year ago, the annual compounded return has been 770%. I used the Excel RRI function for my calculation. One year ago TSLA was $66 per share, and now $574.

I wonder what %s you will see in 2030. :)
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top