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That one would be Tesla, I think.

But the SEC doesn't prosecute real violations of securities laws, only made-up BS.
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I found this on Google. If the SEC catches this, I don’t think it would be good. I don’t really understand why Elon would do this, especially since he has been running a public company for 9 years. He knows better. Is he trying to commit suicide by the SEC? He knows he is being looked at under a magnifying glass
 
This is why I do not understand why no one has challenged this in higher courts. If Tesla were to open a franchise dealership in Michigan they would be considered competing with their franchise if they sold CARS in Indiana. Michigan would revoke their franchise. SO TECHNICALLY they would be allowed to sell cars. They couldn't meet the Michigan franchise agreement so they'd lose that dealership.... which would take away their right to sell cars....right?

Dumber yet.... A lower Missouri courts ruled "Tesla can not be the franchisee and the franchisor". The stores in Missouri were shut down even though they were not franchises at all. The ruling was thrown out in higher MO court because that judge said the Missouri Dealer Association had no standing to sue Tesla in the first place. The judge basically said you can't sue your competition for being competition, so since the Tesla store is not a franchise they had no legal right to sue under breach of franchise laws. Guess what.... MO Senate has now put forward a bill to make it legal for the franchise dealer to sue a non-franchise company for breach of the franchise laws..... even tho they are not a franchise. Basically they will be able to shut down any competition simply for being competition. Potentially it will mean it could be illegal for Tesla to sell (even online), advertise, service, or provide chargers for their cars in Missouri in the future (yes they tried to make that a law in a bill in 2014 they will keep trying). This could be bigger than people realize. If it works many states would adjust their laws to follow.

(I think I have most of that right but here's an article about it)
Auto dealers renew fight against Tesla in Jefferson City

Unfortunately for the auto dealers, (and good for everyone else), this scheme is now DOA.

The question of whether you could sell online and deliver into another state was firmly settled by a bunch of cases related to, you guessed it, Amazon. (I think some were eBay). State laws of the state of delivery which restrict sales flat out don't apply (though the state can still collect sales tax). They'd have to get a *federal* law to attack Tesla, and they won't get it; there's simply no way they can pass it through the House.

There's one Constitutional exception to the "online sales from out of state are exempt from state law in the state of delivery" rule: alcohol. This is because there's a specific carveout in the Constitutional amendment which repealed Prohibition. Guns have a federal law about selling them across state lines too. But without a federal law, the dealers will be out of luck with direct online sales.

The attempt to prevent service and chargers might be possible, but it is such an egregious attack on interstate commerce that it's probably going to be struck down; I guess Tesla will still have to sue over that one.
 
Do you deny this?

I'll save everyone some more reading. :) Of course I don't deny it. But it's not sufficient to assume that your understanding of the situation is the correct one. We'll find out soon enough. Until then, you and I are both speculating. Only one of us is telling others that we're explaining the correct understanding of the situation.
 
True fair value of Tesla - 600/share
Price of Tesla share due to Wall St shenanigans - 400-450/share
Price of Tesla shares due to Wall St shenanigans and Elon's/Tesla own screw ups - current price (276/share)
Please share at lease some of the blame for the 420 event on Chuck & Dave. It's easy to see what a temptation it was to take the company private. In any case, Elon is probably going to stay where he is, and he's certainly going to stay who he is.
 
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Don't forget doctors, doctors and doctors, who are fleecing Medicare like there's no tomorrow.

They also have high public support, so journalists and politicians shy away from calling them out, but they are a big part of the problem.
I should have said "hospital and doctor conglomerates". It's really not individual-doctor practices (which are becoming less and less common, and most of them are not handling insurance at all any more). It's the big conglomerate practices with executives controlling dozens of doctors and scheduling them for 15-minute appointments where they don't have time to actually diagnose, treat, or even listen to the patient.
 
We've got TMC non-reservation holders in the US who ordered SR+ on Sunday (two days after orders began) with delivery dates in Ohio scheduled for this month.

Do you believe the delivery dates? I have this bridge here in Brooklyn which we can have for you tomorrow. I'll believe it if I see it.

They have to prioritize reservation holders now that Musk promised to do so in public. The non-reservation holders will have to get pushed back.

Everyone should take a chill pill, realize that none of us here has sufficient information to know whether Tesla has the supply properly calibrated such that demand matches production, and check back in *checks pocketwatch* let's call it two to four weeks?
Yah.
 
They live in the U.S now but goes back to Beijing China just for medical needs due to cheap as peanuts pricing.
Thank you. I wish there was a normal country with universal healthcare where I had citizenship, but instead I'm just a US citizen. :-(

People who live near the southern US border apparently routinely get all their healthcare in Mexico because it's cheap and good, even though they have to pay cash. I'm not close enough to do that. Canada's also cheaper even though US patients have to pay cash, but they really prefer to avoid treating US patients, and it's still a long drive for me.
 
Wow.

JAC isn't looking good. The state of Chinese automakers is very turbulent right now, but BYD and BAIC are going strong in EVs, and JAC... isn't. Maybe this is JAC's way of attempting to get back into the EV business.

BAIC also looking weaker recently. Production was halted for the whole of Jan and I'm not sure if it has yet started back up. Not sure exactly what their problem was, potentially battery supply issue and preparing for new models.

BYD going strong though.

Nio guiding for 50% QoQ fall in revenue already and cancelling their own manufacturing plan is a pretty poor start post IPO, and not great coming straight after a major convert issuance.
 
Granted, I am not a particularly bright man, but I can still tie my own shoes...I've got that going for me at least. lol

That said, could the lowering of the top end flagship Model S and X prices be simply to put tons of pressure on the legacy manufacturers where it hurts the most? In their cash cow high end vehicles. Seems to me this amounts to a 1-2 punch with the attack on their low end models by Model 3 and now undercutting the top end. Seems like a potential knock out blow to me.

Enlighten me...like I said, I ain't too bright.

Dan

I said exactly that yesterday or the day before - all the days are a blur.

No luxury OEM can compete with ANY EV they have planned for this year, or the next, or the next, or the next... Every single planned EV is DOA just on price alone, never mind range, charging network, EAP/FSD. They are fubarred!

See, no confusion from me. I know what he’s doing; just what he said he would. Greatest lesson in life I ever learned, know who are dealing with before you open your mouth or make a move. Is an advice.
 
BAIC also looking weaker recently. Production was halted for the whole of Jan and I'm not sure if it has yet started back up. Not sure exactly what their problem was, potentially battery supply issue and preparing for new models.

BYD going strong though.

Nio guiding for 50% QoQ fall in revenue already and cancelling their own manufacturing plan is a pretty poor start post IPO, and not great coming straight after a major convert issuance.

Nio's earnings report is downright terrible in the context of their current market cap. They're valued as a rapid growth phase company...….much more rapid than how Tesla is valued. They're not even one tenth of Tesla revenue and already showing significant fall in revenue.
 
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The rule of thumb I read was that cutting prices on a car $5000 *doubled* addressable market.

The stores weren't pulling their weight.

Just so you know. I don’t believe a word of that claim. We discussed this a few years ago.

While I don't think the "doubling" figure is accurate, I actually recently estimated the effect of price cuts on addressable market, which are significant:


I.e. going from $42,500 to $35,000 probably increased Tesla's addressable market by about 15 million customers who are buying 2.25 million cars every single year in the U.S. alone, on average.

Tesla is now affordable to more than 50% of all new car buyers in the U.S., who are buying about 8 million cars per year - an increase of ~30%-40% in Tesla's addressable market.

But more importantly, Tesla has now access to about 80% of the revenue of the U.S. new car market.

Of course Tesla has to complete their product palette: Model Y and full size truck are required to cover all consumer preferences. But even with the current models the numbers are huge.

So I agree with @neroden's primary argument: price reductions are a Big Falcon Deal. :D

 
I agree the last thing Tesla needs is more debt financing that leverages their balance sheet and reduces cash flow. But they should sell stock, preferably to a strategic investor who can also work with Tesla on increasing the value of that investment. Maybe there will be a good time after the Model Y unveiling to take this forward.

In the past folks here including @Fact Checking have expressed the notion that debt financing is superior because it prevents dilution (which grows in kind if the stock goes up) but this is not a company that has a stable cash cushion for such a luxury. If they did then we would not be seeing such extreme cost cutting measures being implemented.

If Tesla could deleverage their balance sheet they would be able to invest in growth again and would likely be rewarded with a valuation increase worth more than the initial dilution.

Lastly, Elon's insistence not to raise capital is part of the bear thesis. This is the part I have a hard time disagreeing with as it makes no sense to me. Tesla has good product ideas, but they lack capital to execute them. If they want to capture these markets they need to move fast. Model S/X refresh is another great example. I'm sure Tesla would like to have funded that program but they likely had to delay it to prioritize capital for Model 3. People in the S forum have been speculating about a refresh since 2016.

Adam Jonas:
“Without an additional capital raise, we are prepared for Tesla’s gross cash to fall further below ($2 billion),” he said. The new sales model is “uncharted territory” for Tesla, a company that used to highlight its advantages in promoting the brand and engaging with customers without a middleman, he said.
Source: Tesla stock slides to 4-month low as analysts question recent decisions, fret about cash burn

Tesla's lack of dealerships means that they require more capital for inventory because all their inventory sits on their books, instead of the dealers. They will need capital for things like spinning up the fabbing of HW3 manufacturing in volume, investing in Model Y, Semi and Roadster parts suppliers and manufacturing lines where will the capital come from for these programs to actually happen on schedule? The continued positive cashflow we've seen seems to be a big unknown to me with the huge price drops and 35k model 3.

Musk warned about "difficult road ahead" sometimes ago, emphasised how very difficult to produce 35k car making profit ...

It doesn't look like a man planning to issue more stock.
 
My girlfriend thinks you're right. After a decade of trying to convince the other carmakers to mass-produce EVs, she thinks Musk has gotten mad at them -- he sounded mad at them in the Q3 conference call -- and just decided to kill them. They simply cannot produce comparable EVs at the price point he's producing; they cannot make money on gasoline cars above the price point if Model S & X are cheaper. Peak ICE car sales have already arrived. This puts the incumbents in an invidious position, and it looks like he's going in for a death blow.

I believe she’s right. And I think he’s been mad for a while now and not just at the OEMs.
 
Everyone should take a chill pill, realize that none of us here has sufficient information to know whether Tesla has the supply properly calibrated such that demand matches production, and check back in *checks pocketwatch* let's call it two to four weeks?

Check back in 2-4 weeks? That's like eternity with Tesla and news cycles!
I give it 1-2 weeks and we'll all be talking about something completely different (besides the Y of course).
 
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