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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Yup, you should have heard the oil lady protest the move on NPR this morning. "It means $ $Billions in lost revenue and jobs just in Biden's 1st term. You can't replace those jobs locally." It was suggested they build wind generators instead. Ya, like they're worried about the jobs for oil. Sure. But it's not like they're out of the game, they just can't grow as fast. But they're not gonna like the Oil Reduction Act that follows ;)
Amazes me at how fast things are changing (lovin' it). Shorts world too. Ha, Nasdaq CEO calling for new rules yesterday. These folks are asking for it, if it means even more protection for the rich. And good for Gamestop, they cashed in on that extreme valuation (just like Elon's doing with TSLA as the SP rises). Seems like the Pawn got Queened.
I was speaking to my mom about one of her customers that was complaining of the same thing. I told her that next time she should ask him if the absence of the pipeline would even register on the issues that he actually deals with. It's amazing what a little propaganda can do.
 
It's gonna really be tough to put your hands at 10 & 2 however...
Pretty sure it's because Tesla doesn't expect you to use the steering wheel much... But I can't imagine trying to have fun in 1,000+ hp plaid+ with that wheel? I guess the argument is that Formula 1 cars do this (albeit lock-to-lock without taking your hands off the wheel). The nanny software must really keep you out of trouble?
 
Only mention of it that I saw was a Tweet by Elon. So maybe it is still coming.

Around 5 minutes into teleconference when Elon was describing the new S as the first production car to go 0-60 under 2 seconds, he mentions it will have the ability to seat up to 7 people with the third row seats.
From fool: Tesla (TSLA) Q4 2020 Earnings Call Transcript | The Motley Fool
The Model S pad [plaid], and we're actually in production now, and we'll be delivering next month. So this is a tri motor Model S with a completely new interior. There are actually a lot of great things about this. I'll do another call about the Model S later.

But it's really a tremendous improvement over the prior version. And the Model S will be the first -- the smallest pad will be the first production car ever that is able to go 0 to 60 miles an hour in under two seconds. So no production car ever has been able to get below two seconds zero to 60. This is a luxury stand that is able to go 0 to 60 in less than two seconds, and will have the ability to seat up to seven people with the third row seats.
 
So who are the good brokers in the US now? Going to leave Interactive Brokers after these shenanigans, and would want someone who would let me borrow against my capital so I dont have to sell my TSLA and has moderately low option trade fees. Sorry mods if there is already a thread for this.

I read that about IBKR and went on. I bought 100 shares of AMC no problem. Was planning to shut the account otherwise.

Did they ban buying or just increase margin requirements?

I got no messages of any kind. Just 100 shares.
 
If anyone wants a perspective from the Street, read Morgan Stanley's initial thoughts on the results before the call. The drop after hours is due to the gross margin (ex ZEV) miss. 20.7% actual vs. consensus of 24.2%.

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MS estimates CAGR @ 27% thru 2030
Tesla guides CAGR @ 50% for multi-year time horizon

Someone want to explain to me, how this traditionally impacts SP in the next 5 or 10 years? Would one likely assume that since many of our ratios are sky high and will likely come down over the long haul that traditional approaches don't apply? Asking for a friend.
 
If Elon left Tesla would you stay in on stock?

we're still years away from that
i dont think he just walks out anyway.

hell take the non ceo role first, problem solve and product development

if they build a fondation of long lasting talent, and the succession plan is solid, ill welcome any temporary hit tsla may take in 2025 or whenever its announced.

for every year that goes by, the blow of him leaving is dampened. if its next year, its a problem. if its 2 years, still a problem, but less so, etc etc etc 4-5 years may be the turning point when he can downgrade his day-to-day role a bit without much backlash
 
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So who are the good brokers in the US now? Going to leave Interactive Brokers after these shenanigans, and would want someone who would let me borrow against my capital so I dont have to sell my TSLA and has moderately low option trade fees. Sorry mods if there is already a thread for this.

What IBKR has done today is to restrict options trading in GME, AMC et al to liquidation only - trading of the stocks themselves is not limited - but does have increased margin requirements, for those who trade on margin:

https://twitter.com/IBKR/status/1354792600004386818

This seems not the same as what Robbin'-the-hood has done - feel free to explain how it is.

PS. It has taken me some time to understand how IBKR handles their margin requirements - it is not well explained IMHO - but it starts to make sense to me now - and does offer pretty good protection against trading oneself into a margin call. Well, I guess I should pass judgement only after tomorrow's close...
 
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we're still years away from that
i dont think he just walks out anyway.

hell take the non ceo role first, problem solve and product development

if they build a fondation of long lasting talent, and the succession plan is solid, ill welcome any temporary hit tsla may take in 2025 or whenever its announced.

for every year that goes by, the blow of him leaving is dampened. if its next year, its a problem. if its 2 years, still a problem, but less so, etc etc etc 4-5 years may be the turning point when he can downgrade his day-to-day role a bit without much backlash

It's already being de-risked with all these other leaders stepping up in conference calls speaking to various topics.
 
Whoever would have thought half a steering wheel would unify our divided country.


And folks haven't even really gotten into the no stalks debate yet.

There's still 3/Y new owners who start threads upset at the controls the car lacks on existing stalks that the S had before this refresh (wiper controls, dedicated AP stalk, etc).

Now they're removing the stalks entirely AND letting the car select D vs R vs P for you based on AP computer- guarantee you'll see a lot of threads on folks unhappy with those changes even if they save Tesla a few bucks a car on parts.

(see also the folks who still are mad at the auto-wipers removing the dedicated rain sensor 3+ years ago and how Tesla still doesn't have it working as well as the old system yet).


That said- the lack of desired old-school sensors and controls doesn't appear to have hurt sales on the 3 or Y, so the doubling down of this strategy on the new S/X might likewise be more of a point of forum debate than one that impacts buying.
 
MS estimates CAGR @ 27% thru 2030
Tesla guides CAGR @ 50% for multi-year time horizon

Someone want to explain to me, how this traditionally impacts SP in the next 5 or 10 years? Would one likely assume that since many of our ratios are sky high and will likely come down over the long haul that traditional approaches don't apply? Asking for a friend.

Not sure there is any traditional impact, given that a company of Tesla's size has never had a 50% CAGR for that kind of time period.
 
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I really have a hard time convincing myself to post in the investment sub-forum, as it just gets to be too emotional of a subject. At work, there are three subjects I refuse to discuss: Politics, Religion, and Investing.

But I'm going to bite the bullet, and just post one time. Take it or leave it, this is my opinion on investing, and is the strategy I've used since I bought my very first shares of stock in 1985.

Buy and hold.

If you look at the vast majority of successful growth companies, you'll find that the investors that came out on top were the ones that recognized the company's potential, bought the stock, and HELD ONTO IT until the company exited the growth stage. Yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but the MAJORITY of the time it holds true.

The saddest investors are the ones that tried to time the market along the way. When you buy a stock and hold it LONG TERM, you have a long time to be "right." When you day trade and/or short term trade, your time window to be right is very short. Are you willing to risk your long term financial stability on your short term stock price forecasting skills? I'm not. Attempting to absolutely maximize your return on investment by "buying the lows, selling the highs" with a growth stock is a fool's errand.

Adding to your position during price drops (as long as nothing negative in the stock's fundamentals has changed) is fine, but selling your whole lot on a "high" and waiting to buy back in during a "low" is not a good idea.

Dollar cost averaging (purchasing stock over a period of time) and long term stock holding are proven wealth builders. Short term and day trading are not. Sure, there are pros out there that are able to do well with day/short term trading, but for the average guy (and even pros like Warren Buffet) long term buy and hold will end up being a far better wealth builder than short term trading.

I have a great deal of confidence in Tesla's stock price to go up LONG TERM. But I have zero confidence in my ability to forecast short term price fluctuations.

IMO, attempting to buy the lows and sell the highs in a growth stock is a fools errand. Attempting to "maximize" your return on investment this way is just NOT a proven way for the average guy to make a good return. There will ALWAYS be money left on the table. Be happy with what you got, put an X in the win column, and move on. You will simply NEVER be able to squeeze every potential penny out of a stock. That being the case, do what guys like Warren Buffet and Peter Lynch do: Buy and hold. Add to your position when the stock pulls back, but NEVER sell. Don't sell until the company finally exits its growth stage.

I purchased my initial TSLA stock in the middle of August, 2019, a few days after I took delivery of my car. I had been following the company for years, and had put YEARS worth of research in the company. Purchasing the product was the final straw; I KNEW I was looking at the future with this car. Why the bold "future"? Because that's when I'm going to sell my TSLA stock. Way, way, way into the future. I put 30 grand into my initial TSLA purchase, and I'm still adding to my position every Thursday of every week. I don't even bother to look at the stock price until after the trade goes through. Why? Because I don't care what the price is right now. I'm not going to care what the stock price is until years from now. Why? Because I have ZERO faith in my ability to look into a crystal ball and see what the price of the stock will be tomorrow, next week, next month, next year. But I DO have faith that ten years from now, the stock is going to be higher than it is right now. And that's all that matters.
I really apologize for quoting my own post... that just seems amazingly tacky. But I just thought I'd gently dip a toe in these waters, and maybe add a few thoughts to the quoted post. Hopefully, the sharks won't rip that toe off and go for the leg. ;)

I just wanted to jump a bit deeper into the whole buy-and-hold philosophy, at least from my point of view. The first step in buy-and-hold is finding a company that is worth your investment dollars.

So what makes for a good growth stock? Tesla is a perfect case study. A person comes up with a fantastic, paradigm shifting product, and starts a company. The product is good, well received, and has the potential to be an actual paradigm shifting product, such that the market finds itself in a "reset to zero" position.

What's a "reset to zero?" Imagine it's the industrial revolution. You have a horse drawn carriage business. You make the absolute best carriages in the business. People can't buy them fast enough. You're making a fortune. Then someone comes along and invents the automobile. How is your carriage business going to survive? In its current form, it isn't. You've found yourself in a paradigm "reset to zero" shift.

The BEV is going to do to the ICE engine what the automobile did to the horse drawn carriage. Finding a company that recognizes this, takes advantage of it, and manages to execute the design and production of the new product is going to be a force to be reckoned with. If the current automobile manufacturers (also known as the horse drawn carriage makers of today) don't adapt, they won't survive. Adequately covering just this subject alone would require at least a hundred pages of text, so that's as far as we're gonna peek down that rabbit hole for now.

Please forgive the pun, but it's time to shift gears. Now that we've identified the company that has our interest, let's talk a bit about why the market analysts (both the bulls and the bears) shouldn't be listened to. You'll find just as many professional analysts that say you should short the stock as there are that say you should buy it. Well, maybe not 50/50, but the point is still made. The ONLY ANALYSIS THAT MATTERS IS YOUR OWN. YOU are perfectly capable of doing your own research and making your own decisions. Research the company. Investigate the management. Analyze how they plan on executing their business plan. Critique the product. Ask questions: Do people love the product? Is the product well made? Are they able to make a decent margin on the product? Are there additional revenue streams that they are taking advantage of? Do their quarterly reports show that they are spending money in the appropriate areas, while keeping costs in line? What are their plans for the future? How are they managing problems that come up (an example of this would be charging infrastructure)? Are the plans that they have made for growing the company reasonable? What competition will they face? How could this affect them? What makes this product a paradigm shifter? This whole process is called fundamental stock analysis. And the most qualified person to decide where your money goes is you; all of this information is publicly available, and YOU will care a lot more about how your dollars are invested than some analyst. Take your time. Learn. Ask questions. Mull it over. Give it some brain time. Make a company EARN your investment dollars through your research before you ever buy even a single share. This is what I did with Tesla. I even bought the product itself. For me, buying the product answered the last of my research questions, and convinced me to buy the stock.

Professional stock analysts often "analyze" thousands of different companies in a year. Do they really have the time to put in the research that they should before they offer their "professional" advice on said stock? No.... no they don't. A perfect example of this is the analysts that pigeon hole Tesla into the automotive sector. I don't have enough hands to facepalm adequately at these guys. That's like putting automobile manufacturers in the horse drawn carriage manufacturer's class. Another example is how so many "professional" stock analysts say that Tesla's current P/E BY ITSELF makes it tremendously over-valued. Have these guys never analyzed a growth company before?

If you are going to listen to the "professional" analysts, you owe it to yourself to analyze the analyst. Does what they say make sense? Are they assigning numbers that are appropriate to the company? Are they comparing the company to competitors in a way that has some sense of logic to it? If you find yourself saying "no" to these questions, you've probably found an analyst that you should completely ignore. The TL;DR of this: Don't go blindly listening to "professional" analysts. Scrutinize what they say in the same way you would the company you're considering investing in. Yes, it is possible to find analysts that are worth listening to. It's fine to listen to a guy that makes sense. The whole point is that you should critique analysts just as highly as you critique a company you're thinking of investing in.

And as a closing thought to this wall of text...Don't go blindly taking investment advice off the internet. Run everything you read through your own logic checker located between your ears. :)

Just a bit of quick background on where this is coming from. I've been a long term buy-and-hold investor since 1985. And yes, I realize there are other valid strategies for investing in the stock market.... this just happens to be mine. ;)

I could continue with my take on buy-and-hold, but I figure I'd just throw this up and see how hard the sharks bite, and also to see if anyone even finds it of value before I continue. So please feel free to disagree/like, etc. But for now, I'm gonna go wash my car. :D
 
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"Not currently planning on offering the ability to transfer FSD from an existing car to a new car."
This is really not a big deal. The people affected the most would be early adopters who paid less.... Either way, when you sell your Tesla vehicle WITH FSD, you get $A more than without. You buy a new one with FSD for $B more than without. Since Tesla won't allow transfer, it costs you ($B - $A). Not worth all of the bitching IMO.
 
Mobile Service is now 40% of service visits, goal of 50% this year.
This is a major advantage that is completely undervalued...
Mobile service is SUPER convenient for the customer.. We want more.
Mobile service goes AGAINST every legacy automobile manufacturers business model of the "dealer". The legacy mfg'rs have a huge network of dealers with huge capacity for on-site service.
 
He told you several times during the meeting. Cell supply. Need moar batteries. Batteries. Batteries.

It also tells you why everyone else will have so much trouble. Where are the competitors going to get all their batteries from?

Tesla will make their own. Yum.
I think Tesla is the hardest customer for battery partners. Tesla knows too much, expects too much and can make their own if the deal isn't good enough... Every other car company.... DESPERATE and willing to pay more for less because they don't have options.
 
Around 5 minutes into teleconference when Elon was describing the new S as the first production car to go 0-60 under 2 seconds, he mentions it will have the ability to seat up to 7 people with the third row seats.
Does this really mean third row like model y or does this mean what has been standard available for model S which is the backwards facing seats in the trunk for kids. Thats how Model S was seating 7 before.
 
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