Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[2daMoon]

While this is a correct statement, it misses the elephant in the room. A non-SC route adds more miles than the Interstate-only route adds. A common trip that we take adds 50 miles, but if I drove the route I would really like to take, going from that route to the SCs and back would add an additional 50 miles. Until Tesla puts SCs on state highways (or has enough range to do a day's driving on one charge), that's not likely to change.

FWIW, the route I prefer would be from East of Austin, Tx, through Sweetwater, TX; Roswell, NM; Santa Fe, NM; on up to the Four Corners area. (Cortez, Durango, Pagosa Springs) GoogleMaps to Cortez is under 1000 miles and ~15 hours

The Tesla.com/trips to Cortez, CO is 1100 miles and 21 hours (10 charging stops) and goes through Waco, DFW, Amarillo, Santa Fe, Alberquerque, and Farmington. For me, that extra 6 hours turns it from a drive I've done in 1 day to a minimum 2 day drive. (others, it might change it from a 2 day to a 3 day trip, or more)

That's not a deal breaker by any means, just significantly different than before, for me. In the past I would drive through to conserve vacation time to spend riding MTB at the destination. Once I've retired that will be less of a concern and I could take it at a more leisurely flower-sniffin' pace.

I very much appreciate the feedback and it has been helpful for me. The Y could still be in the cards, until the Cybertruck is for sale.

Meanwhile, counting down the hours for the weekend to end and we can get back to HODLing.

 

[SpaceCash]

You are completely backwards in you understanding of this issue.

This was NEVER about the stock split; it was ALWAYS about declaring a CASH DIVIDEND vs declaring a SHARE DIVIDEND.

A cash divended could easily have been paid by short-selling Market Makers (cash is fungible).

A share dividend could NEVER be paid by short sellers WITHOUT buying real shares on the market to pay with.

This is the fundamental issue you seem to be missing entirely: only TESLA has the sovereign right to issue TSLA shares.

Certain Options Market Makers were abusing their exemption to the prohibition against naked short selling, to the point where quite likely over 50% of the float was perpetually naked short.

That is illegal, and Tesla tripped them up by issuing a share dividend instead of a cash dividend. Ask any one of the many commenters (I have them bookmarked) one this forum why they didn't receive their dividend shares in time for the Open on Mon, Aug 31, 2020 but had to wait 2 days or more to receive their legally owned shares.

It's because Tesla 'rescued' the shortzes and MMs by issuing a $5B share offering on Tue, Sep 2020 which allowed the MMs to cover their naked short position, and provide the dividend shares they owed to their customers.

The fact that this is NOT the subject of a huge class-action lawsuit is a testament to the tilted legal playing field that exists to gather evidence of wrong-doing by market makers and brokerages. Shareholders could have sold for as much as $545/share on Mon, Aug but they did not have access to their legally-owned assets.

The fact the you don't appear to know any of this makes you look even more foolish than the condescending meme you posted in your comment, which I have redacted.

Not a good look, young padawan.

I know everything you just mentioned and for the umpteenth time I reiterate that every single stock split functions this way.
I'm ok with being in the minority with my correct take on the issue, happens literally every day.

 

[MikeC]

On Clubhouse tonight at 10pm LA time

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1355983231988862978?s=21

Clubhouse iOS app: ‎Clubhouse: Drop-in audio chat

 

[Hock1]

You are completely backwards in you understanding of this issue.

This was NEVER about the stock split; it was ALWAYS about declaring a CASH DIVIDEND vs declaring a SHARE DIVIDEND.

A cash divended could easily have been paid by short-selling Market Makers (cash is fungible).

A share dividend could NEVER be paid by short sellers WITHOUT buying real shares on the market to pay with.

This is the fundamental issue you seem to be missing entirely: only TESLA has the sovereign right to issue TSLA shares.

Certain Options Market Makers were abusing their exemption to the prohibition against naked short selling, to the point where quite likely over 50% of the float was perpetually naked short.

That is illegal, and Tesla tripped them up by issuing a share dividend instead of a cash dividend. Ask any one of the many commenters (I have them bookmarked) one this forum why they didn't receive their dividend shares in time for the Open on Mon, Aug 31, 2020 but had to wait 2 days or more to receive their legally owned shares.

It's because Tesla 'rescued' the shortzes and MMs by issuing a $5B share offering on Tue, Sep 2020 which allowed the MMs to cover their naked short position, and provide the dividend shares they owed to their customers.

The fact that this is NOT the subject of a huge class-action lawsuit is a testament to the tilted legal playing field that exists to gather evidence of wrong-doing by market makers and brokerages. Shareholders could have sold for as much as $545/share on Mon, Aug but they did not have access to their legally-owned assets.

The fact the you don't appear to know any of this makes you look even more foolish than the condescending meme you posted in your comment, which I have redacted.

Not a good look, young padawan.

Thanks, AD

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

Tesla's Crazy Yoke Could Enable Flight Controls, Activate Rockets On Roadster

Will Tesla's New steering Yoke be used to help the Roadster fly ?

Tesla innovation.

 

[Featsbeyond50]

To be fair- the regulators themselves say Tesla didn't check with them first and that they can't say for sure yet if it's legal or not.

So it's not especially comical- it's a perfectly valid thing to point out.






This wouldn't be the first time Tesla showed a demo picture with hardware it's not actually legal to sell (like the Cybertruck without side mirrors).

And we've already had folks find pictures of a refreshed S with a "normal" round wheel poking around the website too.


2021.5 Tesla Model S: Proof a Round Steering Wheel Option Might Exist!

I really hope that yolk steering control comes to fruition because I think it's a great look. Saying this feels like an oxymoron but the yolk really accentuates the starkness of the dash.

I've never been a car guy, but back in the late 80's I was friends with a couple of guys who were into this certain type of car. I forgot the type, maybe Karmann Ghia, but I do remember they told me one of the things they liked was the starkness of the dash. Just a dial or two and nothing else. Ever since then, that's one thing I've always appreciated. The more bare the dash, the better. Now MY car company is sporting the barest, coolest dash ever. Love it.

 

[jdw]

using a lighthearted set of thoughts, one could suggest that these ?millenials? in GME are very aware of Tesla, since i have seen memes of “stonks” and “69,420” on some of the reddit forums, which i vaguely (pardon my failing memory due to advanced age) recall Elon seemed to say. Also my children, millenials, expect to get EV’s, have a few fractional shares and own multiple TSLA (yay!).
so to me, yes, GME is related to Tesla and there should be flow of capital extracted into TSLA.

I think the short term relevance is that TSLA is among the stocks currently being liquidated by MM/Brokers/Hedge Funds to cover the bill for the current GME shorts. Long term, I agree that there will be a net inflow back to TSLA, hopefully much larger than the liquidations ...

 

[Lessmog]

I really hope that yolk steering control comes to fruition because I think it's a great look. Saying this feels like an oxymoron but the yolk really accentuates the starkness of the dash.

I've never been a car guy, but back in the late 80's I was friends with a couple of guys who were into this certain type of car. I forgot the type, maybe Karmann Ghia, but I do remember they told me one of the things they liked was the starkness of the dash. Just a dial or two and nothing else. Ever since then, that's one thing I've always appreciated. The more bare the dash, the better. Now MY car company is sporting the barest, coolest dash ever. Love it.

Yes, you are obviously egged
Karmann Ghia was indeed an iconic roadster, as a rebuild on a generic VW Bug.

 

[AudubonB]

Is that Dick Proenneke's food cache at Upper Twin Lake?

No.

Dick's looks like this:

Too far OT. No more, please.

 

[UnknownSoldier]

I think the short term relevance is that TSLA is among the stocks currently being liquidated by MM/Brokers/Hedge Funds to cover the bill for the current GME shorts. Long term, I agree that there will be a net inflow back to TSLA, hopefully much larger than the liquidations ...

There's quite a bit of chatter about what people should reinvest in after the Battle of Gamestop is over, and I've seen multiple posters say they will go for TSLA because of Elon's supporting tweets last week and also I don't know if anyone realizes this but TSLA and Elon have been memetic at WSB for years. A decent number of WSB people became Teslanaires during the 2019/2020 run-up and it's not like no one noticed.

 

[Tslynk67]

I really wish Tesla didn't do the 2k price adjustments. Sorry but some Tesla buyers have become crybabies about everything that isn't how they like and Tesla shouldn't enable them even more.

If you don't like the new pricing or feel it's worth....cancel your order. Simple as that. Man people

I'm of completely the opposite opinion and think Tesla should honour the orders at the price they were ordered.

Very poor customer service IMO.

Maybe another option - give FSD for free, costs nothing, customer probably satisfied.

 

[mickle]

Well that steering wheel is straight up not street legal in multiple countries, including possibly the US depending on how the NHTSA rules, so hopefully they will discuss the round steering wheel option.

Honestly I would really, really like the ANC (Active Noise Cancellation) to come to 3/Y at some point. Teslas are very loud cars when driven at speed, it would be a huge QoL improvement to bring that to the bigger volume models.

It could be the new S has gone to double-pane glass, maybe even the roof glass? Or maybe the new bullet-proof glass?

 

[Lessmog]

I'm of completely the opposite opinion and think Tesla should honour the orders at the price they were ordered.

Very poor customer service IMO.

Maybe another option - give FSD for free, costs nothing, customer probably satisfied.

Well, it seems to me there are more dimensions here.
E.g. I like it when Tesla lowers prices; if they stuck to the price at time of order instead many would be rightly upset to have to go back in the queue if they want the new price. On the other hand they seem to try to honour the prior price even in the face of rising costs.

Overall, I think Tesla is doing the right thing, mostly. Even if it costs me to change paint.

 

[MXWing]

There's quite a bit of chatter about what people should reinvest in after the Battle of Gamestop is over, and I've seen multiple posters say they will go for TSLA because of Elon's supporting tweets last week and also I don't know if anyone realizes this but TSLA and Elon have been memetic at WSB for years. A decent number of WSB people became Teslanaires during the 2019/2020 run-up and it's not like no one noticed.

Yep all the rainbow bears not supporting GameStop or putting their head in the sand don’t realize that Papa Elon and Mama Cathie are the heroes of WSB. 100 percent, Tesla is the vehicle of choice for these degenerates.

We help them win, they will help us win.

 

[ZeApelido]

Tesla's Crazy Yoke Could Enable Flight Controls, Activate Rockets On Roadster

Will Tesla's New steering Yoke be used to help the Roadster fly ?

Tesla innovation.

@KarenRei strikes again!

 

[Nocturnal]

Yep all the rainbow bears not supporting GameStop or putting their head in the sand don’t realize that Papa Elon and Mama Cathie are the heroes of WSB. 100 percent, Tesla is the vehicle of choice for these degenerates.

We help them win, they will help us win.

That's just the cherry on top. Most of those guys are under 30, probably skewing closer to 20 on average. The younger someone is the less likely they are to have any aspirational cars that aren't Teslas. When I was a teen I dreamt of lambos and whatnot, now they dream of roadsters and cybertrucks.

 

[rallykeeper]

You are completely backwards in you understanding of this issue.

This was NEVER about the stock split; it was ALWAYS about declaring a CASH DIVIDEND vs declaring a SHARE DIVIDEND.

A cash divended could easily have been paid by short-selling Market Makers (cash is fungible).

A share dividend could NEVER be paid by short sellers WITHOUT buying real shares on the market to pay with.

Only engaging once again, because of this post and it's a weekend, but Spacecash is right.

Please read this article. https://www.thecorporatecounsel.net/miscccnet/sample-tcc.pdf

It very clearly articulates why Delaware corporations -- like Tesla -- do not engage in stock splits but instead use share dividends.

This is as opposed to the other share split that happened in August with Apple, a California corporation -- where California's code explicitly allows for non-shareholder approved stock splits.

As to securities lending mechanics, here's an example of a securities lending agreement: Securities Lending Agreement. You'll note that in Section 5(f)(ii) stock splits and stock dividends are treated exactly the same. The Borrower has the exact same obligations under either scenario.

Importantly, the newly-issued shares only have to be delivered upon a request by the lending agent or the underlying fund. The brokers certainly wouldn't have made that request -- neither would the many mutual fund holders and other institutional investors. They were lending securities for the income, not to play games with shorts. They had zero reason to recall the newly-issued shares unless they were transacting. If they were transacting, the result would have been the same for either "splits" or "splits via share dividend".

Instead, most large holders simply let the number of shares subject to the loan increase and continued to collect their fees. Any quirks seen that week were simply the result of hiccups in the plumbing of the securities system. Given the volume of Tesla securities lending, you were bound to see issues.

 

[jerry33]

Do you mean the wheel shown in the Citroen CX?

That was round, not at all like the new S/X wheel. (ditto the non-F1 Ferrari wheel pic posted- round wheel)

(also IIRC Citroen left the US market due to new safety requirements their cars did not meet...though don't think it had anything to do with controls)

Correct, it was the crash ratings that they didn't want to spend the money to improve. The single spoke wheel was what I referred to.

 

[Rarity]

One thing that I have been pondering on the earnings announcement. On page 8 of the shareholder deck, the Texas Model Y capacity is "under construction" but the Cybertruck capacity is "in development."

Taken literally, this seems to suggest that the gigafactory under construction is for the Model Y only and that we soon will see groundbreaking on a second gigafactory building, with completion expected by the end of the year.

This out-of-cadence construction will be interesting to watch. It will also be interesting to see the relative size of the two gigafactories.

 

[mongo]

I'm not going into it, but you are absolutely wrong. Do some DD and look it up. There is a split where the Company splits all authorized shares through an accounting action. I.e., the Company decides that all shares are going to be split 5 for 1, say. One day you have 1 share, on issuance, you have 5 shares. There are no "new" shares delivered to existing share holders. In a stock dividend, on issuance you actually received 4 shares of the company for each share you owned. It's a big difference if you are short the shares and are on the hook for passing along the 4 shares that need to be delivered to the original owner. If you don't get it, I can't help you.

It was a split first and foremost, issued as a dividend, not a dividend that acted like a split.

If it were a pure dividend, then the original shares would have (initally) retained the same value. Options would also have stayed at the same quantity. It would also mean that Tesla paid out 4 times its own worth.

What happened is all quantities were multiplied by five and the strike prices and stock price was divided by five, that's a spilt.

If it were a true dividend, there would have been an accounting impact, just like there would be if there was a cash dividend.
Stock Dividend vs Stock Split | Top 6 Best Differences (with Infographics)

Stock Splits And Stock Dividends - principlesofaccounting.com

Although shareholders will perceive very little difference between a stock dividend and stock split, the accounting for stock dividends is unique. Stock dividends require journal entries. Stock dividends are recorded by moving amounts from retained earnings to paid-in capital.

Option treatment for stock dividend:
Option contract adjustments - Fidelity

Special stock dividend
A special stock dividend is a dividend payment made in stock versus cash. The holder of an option contract will have the same number of contracts at a reduced strike price. The option contract will now represent the original share value plus the stock dividend

Have not been able to confirm this:
FAQ

The difference between a stock split in the form of a dividend and a stock split not in the form of a dividend is that the shares will continue to trade under the same CUSIP number.