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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Has anyone ever thought about a possibility of a collab between Apple and Tesla?

One sure thing out of the whole Apple Car rumors is that Apple is shopping around. If Apple's past was any indication, they go after the best (in price, volume and tech) and provide whatever it's needed to get things done.

Tesla clearly has an incredible depth of EV making techs. And as Elon has said before, the ultimate product is the machines that make the machines, which is the factory.

At about a few B a pop for a giga, Apple can certainly provide enough financial backing for a giga dedicated for Apple's EV products. And I do think it's in Tesla's best interest (per mission statement) to do that.
 
is it just me or is there any powerful shorts that are particularly mad at Elon twisting the knife this last month? Reading Papafoxes thread is fascinating, could this be powerful manipulators looking to stoke doubts?
We only know the price of short term PUTs were significantly bid up, but we don’t know how much it costed the bidder.

It is still possible for the trade to be a cheap manipulative move to pump and dump some longer term puts(which themselves could be some under water Q4 ER bets).
 
Has anyone ever thought about a possibility of a collab between Apple and Tesla?

One sure thing out of the whole Apple Car rumors is that Apple is shopping around. If Apple's past was any indication, they go after the best (in price, volume and tech) and provide whatever it's needed to get things done.

Tesla clearly has an incredible depth of EV making techs. And as Elon has said before, the ultimate product is the machines that make the machines, which is the factory.

At about a few B a pop for a giga, Apple can certainly provide enough financial backing for a giga dedicated for Apple's EV products. And I do think it's in Tesla's best interest (per mission statement) to do that.

That ship sailed many years ago. Tesla has no need for Apple software now. Tim Cook had the chance to at least partner if not buy Tesla like 4-5 years ago. They passed
 
That ship sailed many years ago. Tesla has no need for Apple software now. Tim Cook had the chance to at least partner if not buy Tesla like 4-5 years ago. They passed

Tesla doesn't need anything from Apple, but merely acting as the "Foxconn" for EV. Thus, Tesla gives a factory capable of making xxx thousands EVs per year for whoever capable of paying the bill. It then provides the machineries, know-hows and production lines for companies looking to enter the EV field.

And say a gigafactory is 2B... they go 50/50, Apple buys everything from Tesla but puts the software of its own on the car being produced of this Giga "Cupertino". If Apple doesn't end up going forward after a few years, Tesla can take the factory back and build Tesla cars or other brands' EV.

This would ultimately be in the best interest of TSLA... as it can scale volumes... with or without Tesla branding. And as EV matures and become mainstream, it is in Tesla's best interest to make MOST of the EVs, even though they aren't Tesla branded.
 
Tesla doesn't need anything from Apple, but merely acting as the "Foxconn" for EV. Thus, Tesla gives a factory capable of making xxx thousands EVs per year for whoever capable of paying the bill. It then provides the machineries, know-hows and production lines for companies looking to enter the EV field.

And say a gigafactory is 2B... they go 50/50, Apple buys everything from Tesla but puts the software of its own on the car being produced of this Giga "Cupertino". If Apple doesn't end up going forward after a few years, Tesla can take the factory back and build Tesla cars or other brands' EV.

This would ultimately be in the best interest of TSLA... as it can scale volumes... with or without Tesla branding. And as EV matures and become mainstream, it is in Tesla's best interest to make MOST of the EVs, even though they aren't Tesla branded.

In this scenario you list out, I see no reason Tesla needs Apples help. The value for Tesla is they own the software. That’s the profit center which allows them to sell the hardware for at cost and still make big profits.

This would be a terrible deal for Tesla and especially us shareholders. Apple had one thing Tesla needed 4 years ago.....cash. Tesla has plenty of that now. There’s zero benefit at this point
 
Has anyone ever thought about a possibility of a collab between Apple and Tesla?

One sure thing out of the whole Apple Car rumors is that Apple is shopping around. If Apple's past was any indication, they go after the best (in price, volume and tech) and provide whatever it's needed to get things done.

Tesla clearly has an incredible depth of EV making techs. And as Elon has said before, the ultimate product is the machines that make the machines, which is the factory.

At about a few B a pop for a giga, Apple can certainly provide enough financial backing for a giga dedicated for Apple's EV products. And I do think it's in Tesla's best interest (per mission statement) to do that.

IMO what will further accelerate the mission is Tesla licensing some of it's hardware and software to allied car markers.
Customer can pay a monthly subscription on FSD, pay to use Superchargers etc.
Tesla and it's partners can share some parts.

Depending on the partner and their existing facilities service and delivery might be shared in some locations.
Tesla makes money, and the partner's EV program is fast tracked and jumps ahead of most of the competition.

Anything that accelerates the transition to EVs is good for the mission.

Potentially Tesla could have one partner from each of the following locations:-
  • China
  • India
  • Europe or UK
  • Japan and/or Korea
I don't expect it to happen, I don't think the Tesla end of the deal is the problem, the problem is other carmakers being realistic and pragmatic.
 
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In this scenario you list out, I see no reason Tesla needs Apples help. The value for Tesla is they own the software. That’s the profit center which allows them to sell the hardware for at cost and still make big profits.

This would be a terrible deal for Tesla and especially us shareholders. Apple had one thing Tesla needed 4 years ago.....cash. Tesla has plenty of that now. There’s zero benefit at this point

As mentioned, it's not about Tesla need anything from Apple, but rather SELLING something TO Apple.

Apple is shopping around. And there'd be either money or strategic incentive for car companies to bid on it. Then, why shouldn't Tesla be bidding?

It's all about market share and economy of scale. Say if Kia/Hyundai is struggling with their own expansions (hence not sure on further big investments on EV). Why would Tesla give them the opportunity to develop that scale?

By building more and more Giga factories, Tesla achieves a bigger share of the market and the scale. Yes, it's not selling more Model S3XY but it's selling more batteries as a whole.

I fail to see how that would be a bad news for Tesla. If anything, it further cement the dominant position of Tesla as an EV MAKER.
 
Has anyone ever thought about a possibility of a collab between Apple and Tesla?

One sure thing out of the whole Apple Car rumors is that Apple is shopping around. If Apple's past was any indication, they go after the best (in price, volume and tech) and provide whatever it's needed to get things done.

Tesla clearly has an incredible depth of EV making techs. And as Elon has said before, the ultimate product is the machines that make the machines, which is the factory.

At about a few B a pop for a giga, Apple can certainly provide enough financial backing for a giga dedicated for Apple's EV products. And I do think it's in Tesla's best interest (per mission statement) to do that.
Highly rated analyst Dan Ives of Wedbush said just a few weeks ago he thinks Tesla is the most likely partner for Apple. The interview was posted in this thread (maybe by me).

Ives is very good but he's dead wrong on this one. Tesla would be the last OEM to surrender any of their cars to Apple's software, for either entertainment or autonomy.

Even if the economics would benefit Tesla, forget it.
 
As mentioned, it's not about Tesla need anything from Apple, but rather SELLING something TO Apple.

Apple is shopping around. And there'd be either money or strategic incentive for car companies to bid on it. Then, why shouldn't Tesla be bidding?

It's all about market share and economy of scale. Say if Kia/Hyundai is struggling with their own expansions (hence not sure on further big investments on EV). Why would Tesla give them the opportunity to develop that scale?

By building more and more Giga factories, Tesla achieves a bigger share of the market and the scale. Yes, it's not selling more Model S3XY but it's selling more batteries as a whole.

I fail to see how that would be a bad news for Tesla. If anything, it further cement the dominant position of Tesla as an EV MAKER.

You’re not getting what I’m saying. In your scenario, you think Tesla should partners with Apple as a hardware manufacturer and let Apple install their own software on their own Apple branded cars that Tesla makes for them. That’s a terrible strategy. As I said before, profits are in software. Your scenario would be letting Apple use Tesla as a Foxconn while Apple reaps all the profits of controlling their walled garden software suite on Tesla hardware. It’s a terrible idea and would be terrible for shareholders.

I’ll repeat again, Tesla needs nothing from Apple. They don’t need software, they don’t need cash. As Elon has mentioned time again, the limiting factor of building out new and more production and factories are batteries. I fail to see one single reason as to why Tesla needs Apple and if Tesla had no need for Apple then there won’t be a partnership. Doesn’t matter how much Apple needs Tesla
 
Oh bull, they have no ethics or morals and they are not that great at business, in fact bankruptcy heaven in China. CCP will shut it down so a ethnic Chinese Han owned company that is lockstep with the chinese royal family can take over the EV space. They steal. Hey don't take my word for it ask Ma. Ask the Uigers, ask Tibetians. Ask anyone that is out of lockstep. When lockstep requires a Chinese leader EV company Tesla is f'd in China. Just like google, or dupont, or Bell or any other company. To be clear, this post is meant to reflect badly on the CCP. Lots of good friends from China. CCP is running concentration camps...enough said in my book.

None of this negates the virtue of science understanding by leaders. That vacancy is bad for leaders in business and government, as well as for followers. Who do we hail here? Some of the founders were contributors to science of their day, notably Franklyn, Jefferson in agronomy and architecture. I would ad a plus for the arts, too. Jefferson was learning his 11th language at the end—Italian. Lincoln at end was constantly searching the Bible and Shakespeare for understanding. It is not enough to cleanse your soul of evil by saying others do it. Your choice is virtue, it may not be rewarded but the truly virtuous don't need it. Think doctors and nurses. Think MLK, Jr.

JFK assembled a gaggle of US Nobel laureates at the White House one evening and said in greeting. "There has never been such a concentration of intellect here than perhaps Jefferson alone." Cream used to float to the top.

We could learn a lot from Korea. Let's play octopus. (They learn a lot from each other.) I'm a bit more nationalistic than others, I want us to be better in all categories. What is the Biblical phrase here, something about motes and beams? The only quote from Goethe in my limited knowledge goes something like this (sic in advance). "If you take man as he is, you make him worse. If you treat him as he should be, you elevate him to what he can be." Watch Biden's approach. He may fail, but he's persistent, and it's time for angels, because we're really in a mess.

What does this have to do with investing? We are not competing with China's imprisonment en masse, but we do have a higher per capita incarceration than any country for non-political crimes.

Focus. Why is Tesla Shanghai producing better made cars? That burn's my ass as a US nationalist and I'm sure,Tesla management is doing what it can. Speaking about learning from others, how about from ourselves? Are we too ill-disciplined? Do we lack pride in work? Are reward systems screwed up? Yada yada A fellow named Adam Smith wrote a book about labor here. He quoted a working man at a bar. "Why should I bust my ass for them; I won't even bust my ass for myself." Mea Culpa. The idea of opening a business for myself has always been terrifying. Investing is much easier.
 
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Apple wants to control everything and doesn't let suppliers brand anything they sell. There is no way they would get along with Tesla.
This is so obvious it isn't funny. The demand of complete capitulation is why Apple will find it difficult to strike a deal with anyone.

That said, I believe an OEM with a factory in the USA will give in to Apple in the not-too-distant future.
 
Apple wants to control everything and doesn't let suppliers brand anything they sell. There is no way they would get along with Tesla.

The way I see it, it doesn't make too much sense for me for Tesla to avoid it. Apple has enough finance that it will eventually find someone to build their EVs for them. And Tesla will still be unable to access anything in those cars such as entertainment, autonomy... etc.

Tesla just lost that market share to someone else who's willing to build it for Apple. And maybe allow that someone to build up a scale big enough to build most EVs around the world (just like how Foxconn make many many smartphones).

In short, I think Tesla has everything to lose (no access to software and no market share) if it doesn't bid, while having something to gain (market share/scale) if it were to make Apple EVs.
 
The way I see it, it doesn't make too much sense for me for Tesla to avoid it. Apple has enough finance that it will eventually find someone to build their EVs for them. And Tesla will still be unable to access anything in those cars such as entertainment, autonomy... etc.

Tesla just lost that market share to someone else who's willing to build it for Apple. And maybe allow that someone to build up a scale big enough to build most EVs around the world (just like how Foxconn make many many smartphones).

In short, I think Tesla has everything to lose (no access to software and no market share) if it doesn't bid, while having something to gain (market share/scale) if it were to make Apple EVs.

I have no clue what you’re talking about with Tesla not having access to software/entertainment . That’s not how the app based software model works at all. Tesla simply has to build their own App Store (very easy) and have the apps run natively on their software. Most apps are already made to be easily ported.

Apple doesn’t control “entertainment” :rolleyes:
 
You’re not getting what I’m saying. In your scenario, you think Tesla should partners with Apple as a hardware manufacturer and let Apple install their own software on their own Apple branded cars that Tesla makes for them. That’s a terrible strategy. As I said before, profits are in software. Your scenario would be letting Apple use Tesla as a Foxconn while Apple reaps all the profits of controlling their walled garden software suite on Tesla hardware. It’s a terrible idea and would be terrible for shareholders.

I’ll repeat again, Tesla needs nothing from Apple. They don’t need software, they don’t need cash. As Elon has mentioned time again, the limiting factor of building out new and more production and factories are batteries. I fail to see one single reason as to why Tesla needs Apple and if Tesla had no need for Apple then there won’t be a partnership. Doesn’t matter how much Apple needs Tesla

And you are not getting what I'm saying either. I'm saying that from a strategic point of view, it makes sense for Tesla to make Apple EVs. Sure it doesn't make money on the software side of things, but it will ultimately benefit from the hardware side as Apple EVs give TSLA more scale and more bargaining power with its suppliers.

Tesla mission is never about selling the MOST Teslas... it's about moving to sustainable energy. And if we stay too focused on selling Teslas and making money off its software... wouldn't Tesla just lost its way by going that route? Apple moving toward EV is good. When the most valuable company in the world (well, up there with Aramco) goes EV, it speaks volume.

It has enough financial power to find someone to make their EVs to their spec. And I think why not Tesla? If they go to another company... say GM/Hyundai... whoever... those company just got that "backing" from the most valuable company on Earth when bargaining with suppliers... making Tesla's bargaining that little harder.
 
And you are not getting what I'm saying either. I'm saying that from a strategic point of view, it makes sense for Tesla to make Apple EVs. Sure it doesn't make money on the software side of things, but it will ultimately benefit from the hardware side as Apple EVs give TSLA more scale and more bargaining power with its suppliers.

Tesla mission is never about selling the MOST Teslas... it's about moving to sustainable energy. And if we stay too focused on selling Teslas and making money off its software... wouldn't Tesla just lost its way by going that route? Apple moving toward EV is good. When the most valuable company in the world (well, up there with Aramco) goes EV, it speaks volume.

It has enough financial power to find someone to make their EVs to their spec. And I think why not Tesla? If they go to another company... say GM/Hyundai... whoever... those company just got that "backing" from the most valuable company on Earth when bargaining with suppliers... making Tesla's bargaining that little harder.

Flat out terrible idea. We can just agree to disagree.

I’m going to love all that backing of the most valuable company in the world with no batteries for the next 5 years
 
I have no clue what you’re talking about with Tesla not having access to software/entertainment . That’s not how the app based software model works at all. Tesla simply has to build their own App Store (very easy) and have the apps run natively on their software. Most apps are already made to be easily ported.

Apple doesn’t control “entertainment” :rolleyes:

The argument was that Tesla shouldn't build Apple's EV because Apple would put a wall on its software (in car entertainment OS, autonomy... etc). But my argument is that Tesla won't have access to those whether they build Apple's EV or not. That's what Apple is interested in going EV first place.

My argument is that Tesla should entertain the idea of building Apple EV as long as it still holds enough bargaining power on the table. And it is in Tesla's best interest (from a hardware/supply chain POV) to do that instead of letting some other carmaker to take it.