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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

Paracelsus

Member
Mar 27, 2015
779
7,354
Idaho

jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,068
22,899
...
China is not *remotely* as advanced as so many here are proclaiming (beyond the large cities). For those who used to live in China, and we have a few here, go back and please visit outside of Shanghai and Beijing. Shanghai and Beijing have made mind-blowing progress. Has the rest of China?

Feels like some of you here are telling me what my hometown is like while never having visited. I'm experiencing a Gell-Mann amnesia effect, of sorts, here.
Anybody who has been around Lhasa, Chengdu or even the population centers of any major Chinese city knows that not everyone befits from the glitzy wonderful life we typically see presented. That said, we all know also that conditions for most are vastly better than they were. Just as in the US the poor was are frightening and repulsive places with abysmal sanitation and basic services.

Were we all to be honest we would acknowledge that the progress of that last decades has been horribly uneven, and that unevenness has been happening in most countries.
The technologically adept thrive, everyone else suffers.

This is off topic except fro one thing. Tesla and TSLA demand technological competence. Imagine someone totally ignorant of smartphones operating a Tesla. right, they cannot!

An in-post ModEdit-Reminder for all:
Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
 
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Paracelsus

Member
Mar 27, 2015
779
7,354
Idaho
Gary Black is absolutely getting gutted over his 'old news, 1/2 truth' regarding Baillie Gifford cutting their position. Most of his following appears to have turned on him after his TSLA Twitter temper tantrums last week. And they should - recall the old saying:

"A Half Truth is still a Full Lie."

I strongly encourage everyone to read through the responses to his BG Tweet. Tesla truth is mobilizing in great numbers today:

https://mobile.twitter.com/garyblack00/status/1361365133839187971
 

Nocturnal

Supporting Member
Aug 23, 2018
6,054
30,078
In the middle
I think many people get too hung up on what investment firms do with their trades. Don't forget how they are incentivized. Most firms will tend to be perfectly happy taking huge profits at some point and de-risking, even if they really believe that's not the optimal choice. When faced with the same choice we have much more ability to accept that risk if we think it's optimal. I don't have to answer to clients, peers, bosses etc. with my investment. Because of that I know that I won't lose my job if Tesla get's cut in half next year. I'll just hunker down and wait it out. Baillie Gifford wouldn't continue to hold TSLA if they did not expect good returns. Gary Black wouldn't say he hopes to get back in the stock if were really bearish.
 

UncaNed

Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2015
1,358
4,933
East coast
Well, the great Texas winter storm has hit. 18F and no power in Houston. Our whole-house generator is running, so we’re good for now.

Last line of defense is retreat to the fully charged Model 3. I told my wife we could hunker down in the car in a buttoned up garage. She said “we can’t have the car running in a closed garage..” then stopped and thought about it.
This really got me thinking. That there's absolutely no gasses ever emanating from any Tesla battery pack through all the charge and discharge cycles is under appreciated and totally and utterly AMAZING!

By comparison, I've experienced 2 old auto batteries blow up from leaking hydrogen.
 

capster

Supporting Member
Aug 11, 2018
823
6,280
An island planet
Teslarati - Saturday: Tesla Roadster's revolutionary wiper design secures U.S. Patent approval

Excerpt:

Tesla’s patent shows a one-piece wiper design that is not typical or similar in any fashion to the “normal” two-piece windshield wiper architecture. Most vehicles, including all four of Tesla’s current lineup of cars, use two wipers that operate from the bottom of the windshield in an arc shape. This gives the driver coverage of the field of vision of the car they are operating, but it does not clear every raindrop from the surface of the glass. The top two corners, along with some other areas, are not affected by the traditional wiper design or range of motion.

However, Tesla wanted to install something slightly different onto its next-gen Roadster, which could be the fastest car to ever navigate on public roads. Instead of the traditional two-wiper blade design, Tesla’s patent details a one-piece wiper system that uses an electromagnetic linear actuator to rid the windshield of any rain or moisture completely. It will start from one side and move directly to the other side, cleaning the entire windshield with one motion.
The wiper in the picture at the top of the article doesn’t match the patent description and it may be a good thing it doesn’t.

The picture always reminds me of the Mercedes-Benz monoblade wiper. Although the wiper was more aerodynamic, it didn’t catch on. It was articulated and had a kind of spastic motion that was a bit disconcerting when you were looking out through the front window.

 

lascavarian

Member
Jul 27, 2017
923
4,909
usa
OT,,,,,
@traxila
SIPS
Structurally insulated Panel Systems
usually EPS foam between 2 oriented strand "plywood" that can be very long.
There is/was a SIP School near Shepherdstown, WVa.
house can be like a thermos bottle, extremely insulated, almost no drafts (infiltration/exfiltration)
Also look at what the Solar Decathlon kids did. totally could heat a house with a 1,600 watt blow dryer so insulated
they were all covered with big PV systems and had EV's but no Tesla's back then

SIPS, great insulation and construction benefits (structural). I ask one question, what about pests? No good answers there. Ants are problems if they get inside. And then there is the way foam burns.

SIPS are a step in the right direction but the material characteristic are problematic IMO. You need a great R value, tight envelope, design flexibility, easy repairs, fireproof, pest proof, high air quality, sound deadening, easily recycled materials, carbon negative and low tech. Nothing much in the building code supports such materials or approaches. Architects need to move the needle on this.

~~~Another in-post ModEdit-Reminder for all: ESPECIALLY when an earlier poster wrote that he was aware his post was Off Topic, such are not to be commented upon. There are many sub-forums available to discuss, at length, intelligently and to the benefit of others, topics like this one. THIS is not the appropriate site.
Further responses, and especially their authors, will be dealt with harshly.~~~
 
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UncaNed

Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2015
1,358
4,933
East coast
For those asking about accounting impact of BTC holding (@PeterJA), I did some quick technical accounting research. The conclusion is ridiculous (to me) and extremely counterintuitive to general accounting principles. This has to do with the fact that SEC and PCAOB (Public Company Accounting Oversight Board - Wikipedia) have yet to acknowledge what crypto assets are. So, absent their guidance, classification defaults to Intangible Assets, which have horrible revaluation principles under US GAAP. The assumption for intangibles is that they are not easily exchangeable, so fluctuations in value would not occur often, and establishing market value would be too subjective. With that assumption there is no means to adjust values upward, only downward. That’s clearly a crappy assumption for a crypto asset.

So, my preliminary conclusions are the following.

Under US GAAP
Treated as intangible asset. Tested for impairment (eg, impaired assets mean assets that have lost value or utility) every reporting period. Any reductions in value are posted to profit and loss (P&L) and not flowing through Other Comprehensive Income (OCI - below the Income line used for EPS). No ability to revalue upwards absent selling of the asset. In other words, write downs would negatively impact GAAP EPS and there would be no ability to write up the asset, absent a disposition/sale of the asset.

Note this is not a recurring write down. If the position started at $1.5B and at end of next quarter it was worth $1B, there would be a -$500M loss recognized on P&L, and the balance sheet asset would now have a revaluation reserve against its cost basis, netting also to $1B. If next quarter it was still $1B, there would not be another write down. If it went back to $1.5B, there would be no reversal unless the asset is sold.

source: Cryptocurrency: The Top Things You Need To Know

Under IFRS
Also in an intangible asset. However, under IFRS, where a market exists for the intangible asset, reporters can revalue their asset both up and down.

Downward adjustments have two outcomes: if reversing a previously recognized unrealized gain - OCI, if reducing below original cost basis - P&L.

Upward adjustments equally have two outcomes: if reversing a previously recognized unrealized loss - P&L, if increasing beyond original cost basis - OCI.

I still need to dig in to what happens on realization or disposition of the asset. My educated guess is that it first reverses any accumulated OCI and excess hits P&L, but I may be wrong.

Not perfect, given that unrealized losses (past original cost basis) hurt EPS, whereas unrealized gains above cost basis don’t benefit EPS. At least reversals of losses (up to original cost basis) will benefit EPS.

While not perfect, a lot more representative than the US GAAP presentation.

https://www.grantthornton.global/gl...counting-for-cryptocurrencies--the-basics.pdf

Conclusion
US GAAP is generally a few years behind the rest of the world. Unrealized losses on the overall position get booked to P&L, with the loss reducing the balance sheet cost basis of the asset. Unrealized reversals or gains are not recorded. Reversals and gains are only booked once the underlying asset is sold (to be confirmed, but likely true). Incredibly one sided and a disservice to financial statements users because you could have extremely appreciated assets and you would never know from presentation.

Likelihood is that we see technical guidance released in the coming months as more S&P 500 companies start to hold crytpo. It would be senseless that companies reporting under IFRS would be benefited from appreciating crypto assets while US GAAP reporters would be completely disadvantaged.

Think of it this way... if Volkswagen held BTC, they could record both gains and losses (with a mix of P&L and OCI) and their balance sheet presentation would be reflective of actual value. Tesla would just recognize unrealized losses with no means of reversing previous unrealized amounts, absent disposition of the asset.
A million thanks for taking the time for this!

Is this as good a tax management/deferment tool as it sounds for a business or am I missing something??
 
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MABMAB

Member
Jun 19, 2019
762
2,912
Mulligan's Valley
Unless Baillie Gifford simply took a lesson from TSLA Board Member Antonio Gracias' playbook and sold a significant portion of their position in shares so that they could replace that position with new long positions via long-dated call options (LEAPs). If TSLA is really going to the moon after every Benchmark Fund has loaded up then this may become a much more common approach.............and yet the headlines will probably still be intentionally misleading to create FUD - as they were in Antonio Gracias' case.

any evidence of this being what gracias holds?
 

elasalle

driVIN(188xx) it !!
Jan 26, 2016
3,900
20,634
VA
Hey! I guess I finally got ahead of the pack for once!

Scuttlebutt, Feb 9, 2021
Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
Random thoughts from a late-Boomer who does not invest in Bitcoin as of now.

Bitcoin manufacture is wasteful and too often uses dirty energy. The process seems to be very inefficient.

Digital currency is useful here and perhaps more so on Mars but has its drawbacks that if addressed might:
1) Increase transaction speed.
2) Manufacture coins in a cleaner, less energy-dense manner.
3) have security protocols in place that make it harder to use for fraudulent purposes, ie. money laundering, etc. There may be many more improvements needed that I am too uneducated to see?

Tesla has cheap and clean power.
Tesla has DOJO/AI/AutoBidder.

Is Elon perhaps thinking of improving Digital currency? Starting his own currency? Backed by (what will be) the largest company in the world, the odd Billionaire or three, and an army of loyal fans?

How many of us would invest a portion of our gains in an Elon-created currency??


Am I way off here, or is anyone else thinking along these lines as well?

Why then buy BTC? Doesn't make sense.
The 1.5B used to purchase BTC could have been used to set up (clean infrastructure) to generate/mine all kinds of Crypto including DOGE and may be TSLACoin.

+Unless this is another Flufferbot/hubris causing 2nd thoughts ;)
 
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