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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

S3XY

Active Member
Nov 24, 2015
1,951
5,978
Buffalo, NY
When I was a young investor, I naturally assumed military aggression would be disastrous for the value of my shares. But the market kept surprising me. It seems markets like military action. Even if the initial reaction is negative, it almost always rallies hard in short order. Often it skips the initial negative reaction altogether.

I don't like it but it is what it is. o_O

That said, I think the market response might be different if the aggression had a high likelihood of turning into something more substantial than, say, the war with Iraq.
It was a minor retaliation so it's not likely to escalate at all.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Krugerrand

sroh

Supporting Member
Sep 10, 2017
575
1,815
San Jose, CA
8 people marked this funny. Funny how? You don’t believe there will be market crash? My opinion is that this is not nice conversation culture.
I didn't vote your post as 'funny' but I think your post came off as a bit dramatic to some.

Many (most?) of us are long term investors. We believe that the value of the company will be many times greater than today 5-10 years from now. What happened today, what happens tomorrow or next month, will not matter in the long run. Folks were saying the same thing last March. Was it painful? Sure. But look where we are a year later. If the market crashes, the market crashes. As long as you don't have to cash out at the market bottom, what does it matter? There have been many market crashes, but the market always comes back. And it comes back ever stronger for the best companies, of which I think we all agree Tesla is one (if not THE one).

Now if you are trying to time the market, get out before the market crashes and then buy back in at the bottom, that's a different story, and I can understand your anxiety. I wish you and all who are playing this game the best of luck. But I know I'm not smart/good enough to be able to pull that off. So I will be happy with taking advantage of drops to add to my stockpile of shares, knowing that it's going to worth a in 5-10 years.
 

PeterJA

Member
Sep 26, 2013
844
7,286
San Diego
I'm confused.

1) The 10-year Treasury rate is up by a whopping 0.1%... to yield a gargantuan 1.4%... and this means fund managers should sell stocks growing at hundreds of percent? Because they're risky and the "risk-off" T-bills are so much more attractive at 1.4% than at 1.3%?

2) "Rising interest rates mean inflation." But doesn't that make growth stocks more attractive than investments that get destroyed by inflation, such as fixed-rate bonds?

3) "Inflation could slow the economy." Enough to stop the industrial disruptions that ARK invests in? When such disruptions are accelerated by recessions, according to ARK?

Unless someone can explain what I'm missing, I'm thinking these practitioners of the dismal science are emperors with no clothes.

Confusion Part Deux

So yesterday I was a bit perplexed by some expert commentary on current market dynamics. But today, thanks to penetrating journalism from Reuters and Bloomberg, I find the dynamics are as clear as raw sewage.

Wall Street ends sharply lower, tech selloff weighs as bond yields climb

...The Treasury note yield rose above S&P 500 dividend yield, wiping out the stock market yield's strong advantage.

"Rates matter. At 1.5%, the yield is comparable to S&P 500 dividend yield," said Peter Tuz, president of Chase Investment Counsel in Charlottesville, Virginia. "And there's no capital risk with a 10-year, you'll get your principal back. All of a sudden it's competitive with stocks,"​

I see. So this market professional claims investors buy the S&P500 for the dividends only? And you'll get your capital back from 10-year bonds... except for that pesky inflation that rising bond yields are a sign of?

Bloomberg has much the same story...

Treasury Yields Surge Past 1.6%, Sounding Alarm for Risk Assets

...and they helpfully include a chart of this mighty bond-yield surge, which is certainly tempting until you notice that the numbers are negative because they're adjusted for inflation. Look out TSLA!

25c11f89a876f3eb0ea7b88c4aeb57ad


So let me get this straight. Investors are dumping stocks, especially high-yielding techs, because negative-yielding bonds are crawling upward toward zero because nobody wants them. Investors are dumping stocks because they are dumping bonds. Where is their money going if they're worried about inflation? Beanie Baby futures?

I inputted all this data into the Thinkomatic 9000, my personal AI (Addled Intelligence), and generated the following conclusions:

1) Many market professionals don't understand what @StealthP3D has taught here: Great growth stocks like TSLA can keep rising much longer and farther than you imagine if you "lock in gains" by locking out further gains. And these professionals don't understand what Professor Cathie teaches nonstop: Great growth companies like Tesla are disrupting the world, which will never be the same as when "value" stocks flourished.

2) Some market professionals profit from big volatility, so we get big volatility... along with a smokescreen of utter nonsense explanations pretending that the price swings are rational.

Either way, I will thank Jesus, Mary and Allah if I get another buying opportunity like last March: a 50% drop from the high right before Tesla unleashes a megaton of progress. I've ridden this bronco before, and it don't scare me. Bring it on.
 

22522

Active Member
Jun 6, 2016
1,636
2,756
Texas
TSLA is valued on assumed great growth for many years to come. Small adjustments of the interest rate factor used to discount the value of the future earnings stream, can greatly affect the current share price. Recently the up move in interest rates may have been the primary reason for this month's drops in the share prices of TSLA and other growth stocks.

This sounds like a net present value calculation that one would do to choose which internal project to invest in...

Thank you.
 

Matias

Active Member
Apr 2, 2014
3,209
3,551
Finland
I didn't vote your post as 'funny' but I think your post came off as a bit dramatic to some.

Many (most?) of us are long term investors. We believe that the value of the company will be many times greater than today 5-10 years from now. What happened today, what happens tomorrow or next month, will not matter in the long run. Folks were saying the same thing last March. Was it painful? Sure. But look where we are a year later. If the market crashes, the market crashes. As long as you don't have to cash out at the market bottom, what does it matter? There have been many market crashes, but the market always comes back. And it comes back ever stronger for the best companies, of which I think we all agree Tesla is one (if not THE one).

Now if you are trying to time the market, get out before the market crashes and then buy back in at the bottom, that's a different story, and I can understand your anxiety. I wish you and all who are playing this game the best of luck. But I know I'm not smart/good enough to be able to pull that off. So I will be happy with taking advantage of drops to add to my stockpile of shares, knowing that it's going to worth a *sugar*-ton in 5-10 years.
Thank you. Your answer was helpful. I understand that point of view.

I’ve experienced dot.com bubble and finance crisis and in both of those I didn’t sell and eventually market and my investment recovered.

Of course market eventually always recovers. Sometimes it takes 2 months (covid) sometimes 30 years (1929).

I don’t know when is the right time to sell. If I knew I would be the richest person on earth.
 
Last edited:

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
8,629
63,213
Maple Falls, WA
2) Some market professionals profit from big volatility, so we get big volatility... along with a smokescreen of utter nonsense explanations pretending that the price swings are rational.

This^. The financial/investment professionals profit from fear and volatility. Because if they can't instill fear then they can't swoop in and buy cheap when everyone is selling. If no one has below average returns then no one can have above average returns. Think about that!

It's much easier for an investor to achieve above average returns by selecting the companies most likely to grow at the fastest rate (and holding them through the market fluctuations) then it is to try to time the market fluctuations. That's why the old adage "Time in the market beats trying to time the market" rings so true.

Market professionals tend to not be very good at market timing either but the big brokerage houses make a killing from market volatility through numerous mechanisms (mostly related to being the market makers). Low trading volume is not good for profits. Volatility and fear stokes volume.
 

Lycanthrope

S3XY old dude
Nov 15, 2013
8,663
65,939
At home

More buying, 50 here, 100 there, every day it seems. Excuse me, sir, but is this yours?

upload_2021-2-26_9-50-4.png


8 people marked this funny. Funny how? You don’t believe there will be market crash? My opinion is that this is not nice conversation culture.

I suspect, dear boy, it's because you've been posting about an impending crash/bubble bursting almost non-stop for the last few years

Remember what happened last March? Even better, remember what happened after that?

Yeah, neither do it... and don't look at the German market right now...

Doesn't seem so bad, eh?

upload_2021-2-26_9-47-9.png
 

EVWatcher

Member
Jan 18, 2021
165
952
Earth
Well. I finally caved and bought some puts for March 29th exp yesterday. So you all can thank me when it goes to 1200 next.

I’d be happy for the puts to expire worthless. Just wish I bought them sooner
 

mrdoubleb

Supporting Member
Jul 2, 2013
2,547
13,364
Budapest, Hungary
At this point I think this is likely a typo, missing "standard range", but this line is still super misleading this way:

"Recently, Tesla also announced that it will stop selling Model Y, the company’s lowest priced offering, alongside “continued price cuts.” These developments had raised “demand concerns” on the Street. "

Even if you add "standard range" back in, that vehicle wasn't the the cheapest car in the lineup.

From Yahoo Finance
 

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