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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable


‘20 3P-Red Rocket & ‘20 LRX-Falcon Heavy
Jan 26, 2020
Bay Area, Ca
This is a couple miles from my house. One is a 3 and it looks like the charge cable sheared off at the charge port from the force. 2 big fires ripped through here over the summer. Sorry to be OT but this one hit close to home. I was evacuated for 2 weeks over the summer.
Well over 25% of The cars on the road here in the bay area and in Lake Tahoe are teslas; so it’s better than 0% chance that any vehicle that makes the news is going to be a Tesla. Especially as they don’t pay to pandertise to the local broadcasters.
Good or bad. If it were a Ford, nobody would pay any attention to the brand. Tesla has got a special spotlight. Long term this is a good thing; not bad. And helps us to accumulate shares for a discount even today.


Jul 19, 2020
San Jose
It's a ridiculous "survey" because there are only two choices to the question "What is your attitude towards Elon Musk":

1) He's part of why I like Tesla
2) He's part of why I don't like Tesla

It's conflating two different things;

1) Whether you like Elon Musk
2) Whether you like Tesla

There is no way to extract meaningful data from such a loaded question. The only rational conclusion was this survey was designed specifically to the highest number of negative responses because the only positive response offered requires liking both Musk and Tesla. If you have a negative attitude about either you have to answer with the only negative choice. And it doesn't offer a rational choice for people who don't like Musk but love the cars (a large percentage of the total respondents). This is so transparent it's silly.

But Tesla has endured this kind of favoritism all through the last decade and they are still succeeding in wild fashion. Jaw-dropping fashion to the hoards of naysayers.

A possible motivation for a survey like this could be to sow dissension inside Tesla and provide nourishment to sources within Tesla employee base or Tesla board who wish to challenge Elon.

Two factors that contribute to this not being too remote a possibility:
  • The deliberate arrangement of the survey to drive extremes. I think most respondents won’t fully understand that the choice they made does not reflect their real intent and that the survey provides no choice to express their real intent.
  • Escalant, the company that constructed this survey, has a large auto industry client base and shows logos of GM, Ford, Stellantis, Toyota, Nissan, Volvo among their customers. They claim they help their auto industry clients “prepare for the road ahead.”


Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
Maple Falls, WA
Positive PR is always a positive thing, but I think the reasons why people don't own Tesla's come down to:

* They can't afford it. Even Musk himself has acknowledged this.
* Tesla does not have sufficient vehicle variety to cover all the major segments. There needs to be a $25,000 vehicle and a minivan replacement. (The Model X does not satisfy in room or price)
* They are EV averse.
* They are irrational at selection of EV purchasing decisions. It makes NO sense to buy a Bolt with the Model 3 and Model Y is on the market.
* They are irrational about EV's in general. They worry about the time it takes to supercharge 3x a year, but forget about the full charges overnight.
* The average American is an idiot. Half of them are even more idiotic than that.
* They have wealthy envy. Someone who has more than you is reason enough to be hated.
* They can't afford the brand so irrationally hate it. Their opinion matters little. (Mainly directed to the Zoomers talking trash on Twitter)

2% automotive market share will grow alone just based on lowered cost of entry and adding vehicle classes.

I can't believe you need that many reasons why more people don't own a Tesla. Let me fix it for you: Tesla doesn't make enough of them. They sell everyone they make as soon as they can make it. More people wanting to own a Tesla does not equal more Tesla owners. Not even one more.

I agree with the previous contribution that suggested the PR can become a priority once production volume is high enough to require Tesla to have to actively promote their products. That day is likely a long way off because the cars keep getting better and more affordable.


Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
No one found it funny when I joked about his ~10 day timeline on something infinitely more difficult than holding a call about a refresh.

Given that the button has already been seen in the wild, by beta testers, I would guess that it was less difficult than holding a call about the refresh.


Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
Knoxville, Tennessee
My point was to illustrate the narrative of Tesla being larger than the next 10 automotive companies combined was not worth being playing with because Tesla was in fact close in value to Toyota. Which yes, your spreadsheet in my opinion proves is an accurate statement. When Tesla was 560-ish it was comparable to Toyota in enterprise value - at least by my standards. I don’t see why you felt the need to respond this way but thanks for making this place so fun. /s

So lets explore what you see as "comparable enterprise values" by your standards

The lowest EV for TSLA in the last month was 533.6B on Mar 8 2021
The same day EV for TM was 363.5B

So apparently an enterprise value 52% higher is comparable to you.


I think the 6M chart shows it well enough but feel free to zoom out to 1 year if you like.

The last time TSLA's EV was less than TMs was on Sep 8 2020 and the last time I would have called it comparable was on Nov 16 2020 (when TSLA was 10% higher).

Basically TM has never been over 383B and TSLA has been over that for the last 3 months and is expected to keep growing.

Which is why I thought it odd for you to think they were even close in value or that TSLA had dropped below the value of TM any time recently.


Active Member
Mar 31, 2016
You posted a link detailing market caps, not enterprise values. They are two different measures.

Market caps are calculated by multiplying share price by shares outstanding. That is it. Debt and liabilities are not included. All legacy OEMs have HUGE liabilities and debt. Market cap does not measure these. Enterprise value does.

That is a nice link, BTW.

Toyota, for example, has an current enterprise value of about 350B vs. their MC of 210B.

To be fair, most of the legacy OEM debt is in their finance units, which basically are bank like entities involved in finance for customers, so it makes sense they have huge debt loads like banks do. This is a very different type of debt than funds raised for operational/capex activity.


Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
Mama Cathie bought RBLX!?!?!. To be honest, I'm somewhat flumoxxored that it deserves a place next to TSLA for her disruptive innovation portfolios.

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