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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

Hock1

Member
Jan 21, 2017
678
6,353
Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida
There are still enough authorized shares to do a 2:1 split. Though it wouldn't be as effective as 5:1 or 10:1.
To be clear, a stock spilt of any amount could happen at any time. However, a stock dividend of more than 2 for 1 cannot happen without shareholder approval for an increase in authorized shares. A share dividend has the affect of, not only being a boon for the shareholders per se but, being a big problem for the short sellers. We have already seen the results of a share dividend in late 2020. Big difference.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,387
33,402
Oregon
To be clear, a stock spilt of any amount could happen at any time. However, a stock dividend of more than 2 for 1 cannot happen without shareholder approval for an increase in authorized shares. A share dividend has the affect of, not only being a boon for the shareholders per se but, being a big problem for the short sellers. We have already seen the results of a share dividend in late 2020. Big difference.
I thought Delaware, where Tesla is incorporated, laws only allowed stock dividends not splits...
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,628
15,659
NC

"Washington state lawmakers have passed a measure that would phase out the sale of gas-powered vehicles starting in 2030."



Note the measure is fairly high in its aspirational goals vs real mandate score... still, nice to see.


Would there be enough unissued authorized shares left after that to continue to honor their employee stock options?


IIRC, nope.... best they could do is like a 1.9:1 or something (I think someone did the math a while back, it might be like 1.8767 or something, whatever it was was less than 2:1)



I thought Delaware, where Tesla is incorporated, laws only allowed stock dividends not splits...

I recall the same- in fact that was used as an argument for why this was "really" just a normal split but DE law required them to "call it" a dividend.
 

2daMoon

Mostly Harmless
Nov 25, 2020
677
4,771
Terra

AudubonB

One can NOT induce accuracy with precision!
Mar 24, 2013
8,098
27,020
So many laws like this aiming for phase out in 2030 and beyond.

Doesn't it seem rather optimistic to presume there will be gas-powered vehicles for sale in 2030 on which to apply such measures?
Which came last - the chicken or the egg? AKA a forcing function: the extent to which such legislation occurs will predetermine the lack of need for such. If US states encompassing...25%? 30%? surely less than 35%...of the nation’s population enact such laws, then capitulation is assured.

But to address the underlying point of your question, I am neither so sanguine nor starry-eyed to believe that what otherwise is so obvious to you, to me and I hope the to rest of this forum - that EVs no longer are the cars of the future but of the present - will by itself be enough to extinguish ICEs by 2030. And furthermore, who ever heard of a politician not eager to be first to jump on a bandwagon which from his or her viewpoint is in fact the front end of a fast-moving steamroller.
 

pz1975

Supporting Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,423
7,896
Langley, BC, Canada
I first posted this here in 2013, but it deserves a repeat: Tesla vs. "Rent Seekers"

Excerpts:

...Rent seekers are individuals or organizations that have succeeded with existing business models and look to the government and regulators as their first line of defense against innovative competition. They use government regulation and lawsuits to keep out new entrants with more innovative business models. They use every argument from public safety to lack of quality or loss of jobs to lobby against the new entrants. Rent seekers spend money to increase their share of an existing market instead of creating new products or markets. The key idea is that rent seeking behavior creates nothing of value.

These barriers to new innovative entrants are called economic rent. Examples of economic rent include state automobile franchise laws, taxi medallion laws, limits on charter schools, auto, steel or sugar tariffs, patent trolls, bribery of government officials, corruption and regulatory capture. They’re all part of the same pattern – they add no value to the economy and prevent innovation from reaching the consumer...

...According to the Gallup Poll American consumers view car salesman as dead last in honesty and ethics. Yet when Tesla provided consumers with a direct sales alternative, the rent seekers – the National Auto Dealers Association turned its lobbyists loose on State Legislatures robbing consumers in North Carolina, New York and Texas of choice in the marketplace.

In these states it appears innovation be damned if it gets in the way of a rent seeker with a good lobbyist.

Much like Paypal, it’s likely that after forcing Tesla to win these state-by-state battles, the auto dealers will have found that they dealt themselves the losing hand...
I don’t have anything to add to this, but I just wanted to tell you Curt that I remember reading that post back in 2013! I have used your words to explain this concept to many people over the years. Thanks again for all your great contributions here!
 

AudubonB

One can NOT induce accuracy with precision!
Mar 24, 2013
8,098
27,020
And again it’s time to fire up the Look-Back-in-Time Machine. This time, though, it’s not so far back - only to last September.

But first, today has been the 2nd anniversary of that fateful 17 April 2019 presentation by unconvicted fraudster Trevor Milton, and his Nikola Truck Reveal in Scottsdale AZ.

How lucky I was to snag an invite! How amazed I was to find a new champion Goalpost Mover! Was it an electric truck? Was it hydrogen? A Hybrid? A CNG? Were there natural gas fields owned that would....errr, do just what, exactly? And what about the electric SUVs zipping around the obstacle course outside (not even manufactured by Nikola, by the way).

so, into the Look Back machine, and my post of 21 September. Not from this specific thread, but from the Nikola sub thread:


The one large caution I hope all can consider is that this imbroglio does not further diminish, delay and distract the Big Picture, which is to end the Ice Age. Unfortunately, I’m not seeing a lot that suggests otherwise.

This by no means suggests I find it unfortunate Mr Milton has been exposed. Far from it. But that he was able to perpetrate this I lay 100% of the fault upon those who did NOT perform their own due diligence: the investment community, the investment bankers, the associated firms like Bosch, GM, Iveco and so forth, the news outlets - there is an awful lot of blame to go around and there are a lot of places to lay it.

I also reiterate that we now have Exhibit A - to the effect that no B, C or D need be hauled out - as to why Special Purpose Acquisition Companies, aka SPACs, are a terrible idea and should be outlawed. This is notwithstanding Mr Palihapitiya’s efforts and successes and the gains I have incurred through his IPOA, and I also expect I would be trounced in a one-on-one with him were we to debate this issue (although I’d still be right..... ;)). Yes: one can do good and do well with a SPAC. But it is a vessel custom-made to enable and empower a fraudster and there are too many such out there.



Oh - did you think that this post was about Nikola? No. My distaste for SPACs now has come front and center to the likes of the various Jim Cramers of the airwaves, to Wall St investment banks...and to Congress and the SEC.

And if you’re still reading this and if you’re wondering about how I fared with IPOA-now SPCE...a last thread from three months ago:


  • Jan 27, 2021
  • And....SPCE now SOLD at $57.18, net.

    That gives me a very large hunk of cash; need to make sure I carve out some for the taxman but I wonder whether anyone has an opinonion of a company trading as "TSLA"????
    ?
I got in at IPOA/SPCE's IPO; missed selling at its High Water mark by a mouse hair. Closed this last week at $23.38.
 

Lycanthrope

S3XY old dude
Nov 15, 2013
9,146
69,680
At home
Since this is in context of moon missions, go with the master:
In Heinlein's “The Man who Sold the Moon”, industrialist D. D. Harriman convinces a soft-drink company to help bankroll his moon mission by pointing out one of their rivals could fashion a product logo on the lunar surface visible from earth.

Also, in the futuristic storyline of “Cloud Atlas”, the Japanese are using gigantic laser projectors to image advertising on the new moon.
And in Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun (highly recommended reading, BTW), the moon has forests:

The picture he was cleaning showed an armored figure standing in a desolate landscape. It had no weapon, but held a staff bearing a strange, stiff banner. The visor of this figure's helmet was entirely of gold, without eye slits or ventilation; in its polished surface the deathly desert could be seen in reflection, and nothing more.
...
"...There's your blue Urth coming over his shoulder again, fresh as the Autarch's fish.'"
"Is that the moon? I have been told it's more fertile."


"Now it is, yes. This was done before they got it irrigated. See that gray-brown? In those times, that's what you'd see if you looked up at her. Not green like she is now. Didn't seem so big either, because it wasn't so close in - that's what old Branwallader used to say. Now there's trees enough on it to hide Nilammon, as the saw goes."
 
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2daMoon

Mostly Harmless
Nov 25, 2020
677
4,771
Terra
Musings of an unemployed HODLer...

The performance of TSLA on weekends is disappointing. I suppose there is something to be said for how the weekend SP movement has at least been consistent over time.

In retirement, the occasional glance at the ticker does help narrow down which of the seven Saturdays of the week that today is.

There is also Chick-Fil-A, which can be used to further determine if any particular Saturday is actually a Sunday, should I bother to traipse off to a nearby town that has one.
 

Singuy

Active Member
Jun 28, 2018
3,693
25,280
US
China and US agrees to cooperate on climate change issues after talks.

 

SarahsDad

Member
Aug 2, 2013
475
3,384
NC
Mar 30, 2010
465
2,626
Weekend off Topic. Kinda. VID maily about Asteroid mining but with interesting remarks about SpaceX, Starlink and Musk.

My take: Starlink in combination with solar energy and battery storage will bring all ingredients needed to third world countries to leapfrog a century of industrial and infrastructure development. AI and the solved vision problem will reduced simple labor freeing human minds to create new exciting things. Education systems around the world are not prepared to deliver the amount of talents needed (physicians, chemists, engineers, biologists, ...).

Exciting times ahead.

 
Mar 30, 2010
465
2,626
What is taking Tesla so long to deliver the S/X refresh? Weekend rant incoming.

IIRC, Feb was supposed the month of the first deliveries. So what happend? A missing piece here or there, sure. But wouldn‘t Elon move heaven and hell to get a missing trim piece and would it take 2 month at least? Guess not. So it has to be something more substantial. So what could it be? Did they figure their Kato Road roadmap is progressing faster than planned and a delay of S/X refresh could bring 4680 right now instead of late 2021 with Plaid+? What else is worth / could cause a few month of delay?
 

jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,164
24,318
Newsthink - today:

Cindy is far more effective than my dry academic pleas, or those of all the others...
Now we need a 'Cindy' who describes the Tesla China approach also.
Next it would be good to demonstrate the Tesla plant expansion approaches in Nevada, China, and Germany. Those, too, have been done with highly skilled Direct Marketing approaches.
Of course most of us know Tesla is very adept at cultural-specific promotion.
When thinking about other Elon-led enterprises we also can observe SpaceX mostly making the analogous customer-centric promotional techniques, as are both of the most-developed SpaceX companies, Starlink and The Boring Company.

Overall we are living in an era when 'Rent Seekers' can be foiled with creativity even when frontal attacks fail. Despite demonstrated personal animosity both Mr. Musk and Mr. Bezos have used similar techniques. The key difference is that Mr. Musk has not sought sector dominance, although he's pretty much achieved it more than once.
 

22522

Active Member
Jun 6, 2016
1,702
3,075
Texas
Yep and here's the law in WA State: WAC 204-10-022:
I do not think it will be an issue. There is also this:

(8) Frame: A motor vehicle must be equipped with a frame. If an existing frame from a recognized manufacturer is not used and a special frame is fabricated, it must be constructed of wall box or continuous section tubing, wall channel, or unitized construction capable of supporting the vehicle, its load, and the torque produced by the power source under all conditions of operation. The structural strength of the frame must be certified by the builder as meeting the applicable standards set under 49 C.F.R. 571 Parts 201, 214, 216, and 220 through 224, and the SAE Standards. Such certification must be made by either:
(a) Certification provided on the vehicle in the form of a label which has been affixed in accordance with FMVSS outlining the portions of the FMVSS which have been met;
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,628
15,659
NC
So many laws like this aiming for phase out in 2030 and beyond.

Doesn't it seem rather optimistic to presume there will be gas-powered vehicles for sale in 2030 on which to apply such measures?

Not really.

There's not going to be nearly enough batteries in 2030 to replace 80 million cars a year currently sold.

EVs are 100% the future of cars, but even the most optimistic projections based on fundamentals of scaling and plans for new factories doesn't have EVs being significantly more than HALF the total car market as early as 2030.... (and many models have it more like 35-40%)

I think Elons most recent, most optimistic (basically perfect execution) predictions late last year were ~30 million EVs in 7 years (with ~20 million of those being from Tesla). You'd need nearly a tripling AGAIN from that to get to # of cars currently sold annually.


(disclaimer- there's also a faction that thinks new car sales will be drastically cut, I've seen suggestions of almost in half, when cheap RTs are a thing, but IMHO while I agree that will have SOME impact on new car sales (a lot more on USED car sales to my mind, since the first thing RTs will replace is second/third household cars not primary vehicles) that stacks so many speculations and assumptions on top of each other it's not something you'd want to base regulation/legislation on just yet)
 

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