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Wiki Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

Curt Renz

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2013
6,672
87,423
USA
The only reason I started buying Bitcoin was because of Elon’s support of it...
That's likely one explanation for the decline of TSLA shares in recent months. Many retail TSLA shareholders and meme traders are fans of Elon. When he started tweeting about cryptocurrencies, many of them must have sold some or all of their TSLA to buy cryptocurrencies. Meanwhile, many institutional investors may have become unnerved by cryptocurrency tweets from Elon.
 
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MC3OZ

Active Member
Jul 25, 2019
2,229
12,309
QLD Australia
I hope Elon steps back from Twitter and Tesla does some research before deciding what to do next with Crypto.
In particular, I don't want to see Tesla sell all their Bitcoin after Elon specifically stated they were not selling.
The price can be volatile, they knew that when buying, they should have known about carbon emissions from transactions and mining when buying.
Don't rush the next move, and do some research, generally moving fast and constant innovation is a strength of Elon, and Tesla as is the ability to change direction quickly.
However, with Crypto Coins, there are multiple Coins each with their ardent community of advocates, who are heavily invested in promoting their coin,
Governments are bound to regulate this space for many reasons. There are difference with the efficiency and transaction cost of coins, and the efficiency in which they can handle government regulation.
What is needed is the equivalent of Battery Day for Crypto, a well thought out end to end solution, which is the final word.
Elon may have been testing how open various camps are to cooperation, I think the Bitcoin camp has sent their answer.
 
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Flehmenlips

Supporting Member
Jan 2, 2020
41
42
US
@Lycanthrope
the main point was making was, not just 84 launches, (50 satellites this time), not just another almost 700 more by September, not just how they are going over 1,150 at 1 minute after launch, climbing “like a homesick angel”, the almost continuous video feed looking back from launch to landing, “screaming in from 8,000 to soft landing, offset in case of error and hitting the bullseye”, being able to read “of course i still love you” (yay, Iain M Banks) on the deck of the drone ship looking down during powered descent, decelerating using atmospheric cushion,

Its how _casually_ they can do all these things and make the difficult look routine.

This is a demonstration of great power and expertise perhaps finally on the knee of the exponential curve, just in SpaceX & Starlink & SN15,
And the vehicles, and the batteries and the “virtually zero marginal cost potential of the energy” (sunlight) many use.

additionally

We are also on the cusp of communication with alien, non human species.
The monkey that plays pong with its implanted =>neuralink<= electrodes.
remember Stephen Hawking who talked with a type of vocoder?
Could you train a vocoder with a neuralink?
dolphins, whales, cats&dogs living together, and chatting in a mutually understandable language , “a great uplift”

This is _not_ being a “fanboy” or “fangurll”, it’s looking at technology from a viewpoint of camera like perspective, seeing where it’s been and having a fairly good idea where it’s going,
(thanks to all the Science Fiction authors i have read, traveled with, discussed ideas with, all the “what if this, then that”)

around when we _finally_ got a shared party line telephone with 3 other families back then, who liked to listen to your calls, 64 years ago, chopping wood to heat the house or freeze, hand cranking a tractor to start it, from building a TV if we wanted one (we did and glowing leaky tubes made nice ‘nite lights’ with exploding capacitors occasionally and rubber bands to hold the tubes tight) to now, to hanging a monster “TV/computer” on the wall to watch launches, tapping on an iPad, manufacturing all and excess of my own power that can fuel my vehicle, watching things not only 1/2 way round the planet in “lightspeed delayed real time” but in orbit too.

(what will be the downside when many are neuralinked together and we don’t want to be 2-3 seconds behind, waves of mutual thoughts cascading around the planet)

mental ants stuck on a blue marble at the bottom of a gravity well, straining to break free and “go walkabout”
(and love to the bot scrapers who frequent TMC)
I like this guy.
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
9,286
71,691
Maple Falls, WA
Would love to see Elon's focus return to Tesla and their progress in accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy. The Bitcoin drama is a completely unnecessary distraction and the Doge stuff isn't funny anymore.

It would be a mistake to assume Elon's focus ever left Tesla based on looking at how much the media focused on Tesla's Bitcoin activity or on what the share price is doing. Elon can multi-task in his sleep more competently than most people can multi-task when they are wide awake. He thrives on having multiple irons in the fire.

I find it odd how a low share price causes so much pain and angst amongst those who claim to be long-term Tesla investors. In early 2019 when I started accumulating Tesla shares I was surprised how negative so many long-term shareholders were on Tesla when, in my opinion, Tesla was functioning like a well-oiled machine, doing amazing things with rapidly improving fundamentals and there were strong signs of an impending break-out of the share price. Things were looking so bright I was buying as much as I could afford and even selling other stocks that were market darlings (like MSFT) to buy more, yet the mood on this forum was decidedly dour, even after the share price had bottomed and was on a slow, somewhat erratic rise before the big breakout. The forum negativity made no sense to me but I didn't let it deter me.

We might have a ways to go to get to that point again or it might have already happened, I don't know. I just know the macro trend will be down until it's not and so I wait patiently for the market to do what markets do. Markets love to be erratic and over-react. I figure the macro trend is still down because Tesla should lead the recovery. This means it might take a while. Tesla's Bitcoin activity is not even relevant except to the extent that the puppet master can distract the detractors long enough to complete his slight of hand before they figure out what he's really up to.

Observers such as ourselves cannot always see what is really going on so, without strong evidence that something has changed, I'm going to stick to an old, reliable, and well-established rule of thumb: Don't bet against Elon Musk!
 

insaneoctane

Active Member
Apr 6, 2016
3,537
6,783
Southern California
Interesting article. Bold by me....
General Motors has announced a $40 million investment for its Pontiac Stamping Plant in Michigan. The new investment will go towards facility renovations and the installation of new fabrication machinery for future EV production.

The new machinery includes “Flex Fab” sheet metal fabrication tech, which will provide “repeatable, custom and precise stamping.” Critically, the new Flex Fab tech requires little to no additional tooling investments when creating new stampings, thus reducing overall costs with regard to low-volume applications.

Article is here

Seems to me that if you are gearing up for an EV future properly, you would expect that to become high volume quickly?😯
 

johnm6875

Member
Apr 13, 2016
66
540
Auburn
Would love to see Elon's focus return to Tesla and their progress in accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy. The Bitcoin drama is a completely unnecessary distraction and the Doge stuff isn't funny anymore.
What I “know” is Tesla bought a fungible commodity (Bitcoin) instead of holding cash. The purpose was an expected retention of capital and to experiment with the liquidity of the commodity. As an aside, Tesla allowed small purchases to be made with Bitcoin. It became obvious the energy cost for those small purchases was exorbitant and dirty, so it was curtailed. For such an insignificant change, there should be no material impact on TSLA or Bitcoin.

I also “know” Elon’s tweets are cryptic, ephemeral and he responds poorly when attacked. I have a lot riding on TSLA and a little on Bitcoin. Changing my years long willingness to allow latitude in both financial and personal actions by Tesla leadership, at this point, seems antithetical. HODL.
 

Bunky

Member
Aug 8, 2013
260
1,311
New York
It would be a mistake to assume Elon's focus ever left Tesla based on looking at how much the media focused on Tesla's Bitcoin activity or on what the share price is doing. Elon can multi-task in his sleep more competently than most people can multi-task when they are wide awake. He thrives on having multiple irons in the fire.

I find it odd how a low share price causes so much pain and angst amongst those who claim to be long-term Tesla investors. In early 2019 when I started accumulating Tesla shares I was surprised how negative so many long-term shareholders were on Tesla when, in my opinion, Tesla was functioning like a well-oiled machine, doing amazing things with rapidly improving fundamentals and there were strong signs of an impending break-out of the share price. Things were looking so bright I was buying as much as I could afford and even selling other stocks that were market darlings (like MSFT) to buy more, yet the mood on this forum was decidedly dour, even after the share price had bottomed and was on a slow, somewhat erratic rise before the big breakout. The forum negativity made no sense to me but I didn't let it deter me.

We might have a ways to go to get to that point again or it might have already happened, I don't know. I just know the macro trend will be down until it's not and so I wait patiently for the market to do what markets do. Markets love to be erratic and over-react. I figure the macro trend is still down because Tesla should lead the recovery. This means it might take a while. Tesla's Bitcoin activity is not even relevant except to the extent that the puppet master can distract the detractors long enough to complete his slight of hand before they figure out what he's really up to.

Observers such as ourselves cannot always see what is really going on so, without strong evidence that something has changed, I'm going to stick to an old, reliable, and well-established rule of thumb: Don't bet against Elon Musk!

Cool story. I never mentioned any pain or angst about the share price. I am merely hoping that the conversation among Elon's public audience of tens of millions will return to all the cool things Tesla is doing to execute on their mission some time soon. Rather than freaking Doge coin.
 

22522

Active Member
Jun 6, 2016
1,736
3,328
Texas
Interesting article. Bold by me....


Article is here

Seems to me that if you are gearing up for an EV future properly, you would expect that to become high volume quickly?😯
Their ads and signalling indicate they are going to have a lot of different EVs. They are going to try to fill in all the niches that Tesla does not.
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
9,286
71,691
Maple Falls, WA
My TSLA investment is greater than my crypto investments. Though having both, I am a bit as annoyed as I am sure Cathie Wood is as well.

While short positions have to be covered eventually, no one says it has to be done at a loss. Bitcoiners can definitely short at opportune times to accelerate losses and trigger stops. They can also cap and suppress prices so bullish call buyers go OTM.

How effective will they be at this? Hopefully not very.

My point is it's better to have friends instead of enemies. Point is I don't see much value getting into unnecessary wars with probable negative benefits.

Bitcoin investors buy cars too. And many would have bought Plaid S or Roadsters.

Bitcoin mining is not productive. Period.

I've never "invested" in crypto because I don't consider it investing. It's gambling. I invest in productivity and I've never understood what Elon saw in Bitcoin. I just figured he had his reasons that I couldn't see. Could it be that he doesn't like crypto because it doesn't represent true productivity any more than the US dollar or China's Yuan? We know he has a dim view of money compared to productivity. Money is only important because it represents productivity, even if that representation is far from perfect (Bitcoin able to be converted to USD is but one example).

I have no way to value Bitcoin (or Doge coin for that matter). Neither does anyone. It's like a stock without an underlying company. Let that sink in.
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
9,286
71,691
Maple Falls, WA
The only reason I started buying Bitcoin was because of Elon’s support of it. Is this going to affect the Bitcoin price long term? Should I sell at a loss and wait for Tesla Coin to come out? Always something to worry about.

Your cost basis of an "investment" should have nothing to do with the decision to sell or hold (beyond tax considerations). If you think it'll be worth more in the future, enough so that it makes sense to hold it, then hold it. If not, then sell it. Tax considerations are the only thing your purchase price has to do with it.

I never bought crypto because I had no idea whether it would be worth more or less in the future, and I still don't.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,927
16,463
NC
The price can be volatile, they knew that when buying, they should have known about carbon emissions from transactions and mining when buying.

Of course they knew.

That's why the whole thing is so weird- both jumping in and then jumping right back out.

The below is from 2019-



However, Tesla will not be getting involved with digital currency, because Musk says it’s not a good use of the company’s resources. Plus, creating or mining cryptocurrency takes a lot of computer power, and therefore electricity.

“I think one of the downsides of crypto is that it, computationally, it is like quite energy intensive,” Musk said. “It is very energy intensive to create the incremental bitcoin at this point.”
 

dhanson865

Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
4,559
7,011
Knoxville, Tennessee
In general, rather than another 5 for 1 stock split, can we collectively support the idea of Tesla doing a 2 for 1 split on a yearly basis to routinely clear out the barn ?

If they've done one 5 for 1 split in 11 years they would have to wait every five years to do a 2 for 1 split at a similar long term effect.

If you make it a 3 for 2 split (1.5 to 1) then you could do it every 3 years.

If you make it a 4 for 3 split (1.33 to 1) you could do it every 2 years.

If you make it a 5 for 4 split (1.25 to 1) you could do it every 1.5 years.

If you make it a 6 for 5 split (1.20 to 1) you can do it every year.

All of these are until the growth stops and at some point you have to skip a year or just stop splitting and let it rise.

2 for 1 or 5 for 1 splits have to be very rare to not get ahead of the growth story, like clockwork annual splits would have to be very small, odd multiple splits, probably not as big an effect as you are looking for.
 

TheTalkingMule

Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Oct 20, 2012
6,908
25,185
Philadelphia, PA
A stock split isn't going to get us to retirement, it's autonomous driving we need to look forward to.
A lot of people here have that sentiment, and it's likely true in the long term, but the first few FSD crashes will come with so much FUD this'll seem like nothing.

I suspect share price will be impacted quite a bit to the negative as the fossil world takes one last hail mary run at Tesla before the great decline.

On the other hand, a share split seems to force naked short shares to be made real. That would do QUITE A LOT for our retirement funds should it hut toward the end of this year.
 

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