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Wiki Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️

Active Member
Jul 15, 2016
2,815
4,736
Pacific Northwest
Your cost basis of an "investment" should have nothing to do with the decision to sell or hold (beyond tax considerations). If you think it'll be worth more in the future, enough so that it makes sense to hold it, then hold it. If not, then sell it. Tax considerations are the only thing your purchase price has to do with it.

I never bought crypto because I had no idea whether it would be worth more or less in the future, and I still don't.
I feel like you’re saying take my losses because I can write them off. I’ve never had taxable losses before. Everything I have is in tax differed retirement accounts. Can I write the Bitcoin losses off of my income?
 

Cherry Wine

Supporting Member
Oct 4, 2018
2,528
19,969
California
100% right. Elon's involvement in crypto is a disaster for Tesla shareholders. Stay out is fine. Stay in is fine. Come in, cause a lot of drama, uncertainty and then getting out in this fashion is a cluster.

I'm thinking a 1% or 2% up day might be possible if macro cooperates. Should be 5% or more based on S deliveries and their positive impact on Q2 gross margins.

This crypto expedition by Tesla is a millstone around the neck and it will be depressing prices for awhile. Yes you can use it to buy the dip.. but RIP call buyers and put sellers.



BS. Bitcoin energy consumption, Doge energy consumption, crypto energy consumption has always been known to Elon.

Multiple intentional rug pulls were done by Elon to the crypto community. Some winners. Some losers.

I don't see a net positive from these actions for Tesla or TSLA.




Bitcoin was fine before Elon ever got involved and will be fine after he exited. It steadily marches towards maximum circulation and daily supply reduces by 50% in the next 3 years. You'll find previous postings, I've stated that one should maintain at minimum 1-3% of net worth in Bitcoin. My stance hasn't changed.

If some institutional investors lightened up because of Tesla’s BTC stake (possible judging from past price action) and decide to now come back in because said stake appears to have been sold, they will vastly outweigh any damage from shorting.

I agree 100% by the way - this whole thing was a total cluster.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,927
16,463
NC
I feel like you’re saying take my losses because I can write them off. I’ve never had taxable losses before. Everything I have is in tax differed retirement accounts. Can I write the Bitcoin losses off of my income?


Sure- same as other capital losses (and thus with the same caveats about amounts, holding periods, offsetting, carry-over, etc)

 

22522

Active Member
Jun 6, 2016
1,736
3,328
Texas
Here are 3 other photos from the day trip. Looking a little left. Looking south along the long dimension and charging at 828 mph in Waco.
View attachment 662874View attachment 662875View attachment 662876
Apologies on foamed Dawn that gets dispensed on everything when I walk back from the truck stop etc. Should have cleaned the screen. Point of note: COVID is tiny and has a lipid layer. Small things have high surface area to volume so I figure stoichiometrically the virus replicates until it runs out of lipids, as those get used up first. Dawn does not like lipids and lipids don't like Dawn. I use that foaming bottle as a scare crow.
 

Skryll

Member
Mar 12, 2016
965
3,753
San Francisco,CA
More info (even if it is from FoxBusiness):

And the commenters gobble the propaganda slant 'woke' right up. Sickening
 

Lycanthrope

S3XY old dude
Nov 15, 2013
9,323
71,174
At home
Actual photo of the fund picking stocks yesterday...

1621230107749.png
 

Buckminster

Active Member
Aug 29, 2018
3,167
15,942
UK
Elon at 50m Twitter followers.

This is not an April fools joke!
By the time most of you will have woken up Elon will be at 55m followers. At this rate Elon will be at 90m followers on the 1st of April 2022. Still not an early April fools joke!
Is that your estimate of TSLA's market cap or the price per share? I'm trying to decide if you're a bull or not.
Market cap. I am a bear and here is the proof: Model assumes a p/e ratio of 50. That is a 1200% reduction on today.

You have to keep things sensible to avoid the dreaded quadrillion, which most people don't even think exists as a number. $0.125q just looks like a rounding error.
 

MC3OZ

Active Member
Jul 25, 2019
2,229
12,309
QLD Australia
Elon just clarified Tesla hasn’t sold any more Bitcoin, causing it to rise 5% or so. Maybe they will cancel their cyber truck cancellations
This is consistent with the earlier statement,,

In spite of all the drama the only real change is Tesla no longer accepting BTC payments for cars, apparently that is due to increased emissions, caused in part by more mining and the higher price ... (I may not have that 100% right .... this area is murky).

The implication is Tesla will accept BTC payments and sell BTC when emissions are lower, and.or Tesla will start accepting payments in Crypto coins with lower emissions.

So it is consistent with the mission, to deal with Tesla, Crypto communities need to embrace lower emissions...

My take is that the BTC community is inflexible and BTC is in efficient, but if we wait long enough, all Crypto will have low emissions.

In the meantime Tesla will continue to grow cash reserves and/or invest in new factories, they may diversify to hold other Crypto.
But we can expect the BTC position to stay relatively constant and smaller part of their liquid assets.

If there is an emergency need for more cash, they might have to sell BTC or raise capital, that scenario looks very unlikely.,
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
9,286
71,691
Maple Falls, WA
Looks like some BTC fans are showing their displeasure by cancelling their cybertruck reservations. I don't think that will hurt Tesla as much as they hope it does.

Thank you! That's the best news I've heard all weekend! I wonder how many of them had reservations in front of mine? Probably more than a few!

I couldn't wait so I broke down and purchased a 1:10 scale Cybertruck to hold me over. 🤪
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
9,286
71,691
Maple Falls, WA
I feel like you’re saying take my losses because I can write them off. I’ve never had taxable losses before. Everything I have is in tax differed retirement accounts. Can I write the Bitcoin losses off of my income?

I'm not saying that. Some people hold onto underwater investments hoping they will come above water so they can sell them at a profit or at least at break-even. I'm saying it's misguided to hold an investment based upon your purchase price. If you think the investment no longer has the promise you thought it once had, do not hesitate to sell it simply because it's underwater - the price you paid is irrelevant to your decision. All that matters is the current market value and your appraisal of it's potential future value. The only reason I add "except for tax considerations" is you might consider your cost basis if (for example) you are not ready to benefit from the capital loss yet. Humans hate to "lose" money so they tend to want to hold an underwater investment just so they don't feel they have lost money. It's one of many silly human traits that are common.

Of course if you think the depressed price is temporary, and it's not just wishful thinking that it will recover, then, sure, hold it. With crypto there's not a lot to go on. It's a gamble when you buy it and a gamble when you sell it. I'm not sure how anyone values the stuff.
 

CorneliusXX

Active Member
Jun 19, 2015
2,186
17,538
London
What I “know” is Tesla bought a fungible commodity (Bitcoin) instead of holding cash. The purpose was an expected retention of capital and to experiment with the liquidity of the commodity. As an aside, Tesla allowed small purchases to be made with Bitcoin. It became obvious the energy cost for those small purchases was exorbitant and dirty, so it was curtailed. For such an insignificant change, there should be no material impact on TSLA or Bitcoin.

I also “know” Elon’s tweets are cryptic, ephemeral and he responds poorly when attacked. I have a lot riding on TSLA and a little on Bitcoin. Changing my years long willingness to allow latitude in both financial and personal actions by Tesla leadership, at this point, seems antithetical. HODL.
I'd expect to see continued attacks from the crypto community against Elon. The worst edges of the crypto community are far more rabid than the short seller community we normally see with Tesla. I've been invested in cryptos for nearly 10 years with varying levels of interest. I followed the conversation closely in 2016 around the blocksize debate and there were no punches pulled. People were using every dastardly trick to discredit eachother - bot spamming conversations, hacking, doxxing, getting moderators removed to control narratives, intentional lying to a level beyond what I have seen from standard Tesla shortsellers, reporting people to regulators/authorities where possible. Every dupe, hoodwink and conniving edge was used to discredit opponents. The actors in this space are tech natives whereas most of the short sellers rely on a CNBC interview or paying a few reporters to lie.

The value for cryptos at the moment is mostly driven by belief (IMO), although I believe the tech has great promise to replace substantial parts of the current financial ecosystem. Elon has brought an existential threat to the forefront of that belief system - it is not a sustainable store of value because it relies on bucket loads of dirty energy. The issue has always been known but is normally talked down or pushed into the future in favour of other topics. It is difficult for the world to ignore when Elon states he is taking real action against Bitcoin due to energy usage and it tarnishes the belief that Bitcoin can be a long term store of value if it is currently unsustainable.

I don't think it's a long term issue for Elon/Tesla and is likely to be a good thing for crypto (eventually) as it will force innovation towards sustainability. But I do expect to see some pretty wild attacks towards Elon in the short term.
 

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