Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[jw934]

Can you summarize? Some of us aren't really willing to pay a subscription to read Bloomberg

This twitter link to that Bloomberg article worked for me if I open link in my Chrome Incognito mode.

Tesla Amps Up Rivian Poaching Fight, Cites Battery Secrets Theft By Peter Blumberg October 3, 2021, 11:17 AM EDT

"
The world’s leading electric-vehicle maker says the lawsuit it filed 14 months ago against Rivian hasn’t stopped the startup from raiding its staff and looting its intellectual property. That includes one instance this summer where Tesla defectors were “caught red-handed” stealing the core technology for its next-generation batteries, “the most essential element for any electric vehicle,” according to a court filing last month.

"

Credit to FactChecking for providing that link. He also chimed in on that awful news article headline:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1444720746404663299

 

[Artful Dodger]

Calm down. Not everyone was here for the great cell transition wars of years past. @Blue horseshoe joined Aug 15, 2020, well after 2170 version of the transition debate.

You're not the Moderator of this forum. This is serious misinformation. Refreshed Models X will use 18650s for years to come. Full stop.

Providing wiggle room to perpetuate known false narratives out of a "sense of fairness" doesn't advance the Mission, it delays it.

What's worse, it's the casual reader or newcomer that will be most influenced by your attempt at distraction.

 

[JusRelax]

We need to get off oil. Am I wrong in thinking that Californians unable to go to the beach will increase demand for EVs? Officials in Southern California are warning residents to stay clear of beaches as a 13-mile-long oil spill is about to wash ashore

 

[Rarity]

I work at Boeing in the Seattle area, which is a union shop. I would also like to add that there is ZERO chance that what Tesla is doing would fly with a union, largely because unions force companies to maintain strictly defined job roles with no overlap, which majorly hampers the rapid learning necessary for Agile at this level.

I know that Tesla and SpaceX use agile/scrum methods, but I'm not sure what to make of Joe's videos. They are interesting, but it's never clear what his relationship to the Musk companies actually was and for how long. It's also not clear what those companies actually implemented, and what is general agile and what Tesla/SpaceX/Neuralink/TBC could implement.

 

[Discoducky]

I know that Tesla and SpaceX use agile/scrum methods, but I'm not sure what to take of Joe's videos. They are interesting, but it's never clear what his relationship to the Musk companies actually was and for how long. It's also not clear what those companies actually implemented, and what is general agile and what Tesla/SpaceX/Neuralink could implement.

My hot take and I've only seen a few minutes of the video, but it is clear to me that he's selling his wares, but also he did actually work in production, of some capacity as he knows some interesting details how how Tesla operates it's Agile methodologies. I find it interesting and insightful, but also seems to be more about selling his stuff.

 

[Skryll]

I know that Tesla and SpaceX use agile/scrum methods, but I'm not sure what to take of Joe's videos. They are interesting, but it's never clear what his relationship to the Musk companies actually was and for how long. It's also not clear what those companies actually implemented, and what is general agile and what Tesla/SpaceX/Neuralink could implement.

The first 10 minutes set up big BS flags for me on his video, i.e. the forced correlation with innovation speed vs size. But then later on with all the detail that I don't know to judge well, I wasn't sure any more. Anybody with deeper understanding that could tell us if this is real or as bogus as the beginning?

 

[CorneliusXX]

Can you summarize? Some of us aren't really willing to pay a subscription to read Bloomberg

This twitter link to that Bloomberg article worked for me if I open link in my Chrome Incognito mode.

Tesla Amps Up Rivian Poaching Fight, Cites Battery Secrets Theft By Peter Blumberg October 3, 2021, 11:17 AM EDT

"
The world’s leading electric-vehicle maker says the lawsuit it filed 14 months ago against Rivian hasn’t stopped the startup from raiding its staff and looting its intellectual property. That includes one instance this summer where Tesla defectors were “caught red-handed” stealing the core technology for its next-generation batteries, “the most essential element for any electric vehicle,” according to a court filing last month.

"

Credit to FactChecking for providing that link. He also chimed in on that awful news article headline:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1444720746404663299

What @jw934 said.

This sounds like something too blatant for Elon to just let slide by, especially given how directly he calls out Bezos regarding SpaceX matters. I'm guessing he might be a little more vocal about it in the lead up to Rivian's IPO to cause some impact.

 

[hobbes]

I know that Tesla and SpaceX use agile/scrum methods, but I'm not sure what to take of Joe's videos. They are interesting, but it's never clear what his relationship to the Musk companies actually was and for how long. It's also not clear what those companies actually implemented, and what is general agile and what Tesla/SpaceX/Neuralink could implement.

Joe Justice joined Tesla in 2020, where Joe operated Agile@Tesla from the company headquarters.

Joe Justice - Scrum Alliance

Joe applied agile to automotive manufacturing in 2006, founding Team WIKISPEED, and set 4 world records. WIKISPEED became the first automotive manufacturer

www.scrumalliance.org

Found better info at teslainvestorsclub, maybe someone of you with access to linkedin can crosscheck there (bolding by myself):

I checked his LinkedIn and he worked at Tesla for around two months, from July 2020 to August 2020. This is what he wrote about it:

I operated agile@tesla during Tesla’s largest stock price rise to date from Tesla’s world headquarters in Fremont, CA, USA, collaborating with Lean@Tesla and other process and improvement groups. I worked with autonomous and semi autonomous factory systems guided by machine vision just as you see on Elon’s posted tours of the headquarters, and I was part of bringing many thousands of cars to loving customers world wide. I have never had so much fun at work, and every other company I have been in feels like slow motion by comparison. I validated my pre-existing system of eXtreme Manufacturing, learned a tremendous amount about how new product development and introduction really accelerate, and wish everyone I worked with very well. Ultimately the demand to teach classes became so much that I did resign from working in the Tesla headquarters to focus on teaching.

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslainvestorsclub/comments/pzp91s/_/hf3v5gs

 

[hacer]

...
What GM says - "...with most of the impact occurring during the third quarter."

What is most likely happening - Demand usually increases in Q4 vs Q3 seasonally and they hope they can recover demand at prices which allow them to remain solvent. Too much debt, not enough free cash flow, not enough operating margin, not able to make debt payments, not able to make payroll, @jhm hot mess.
...

Remember, no amount of debt of an OEM matters (except for always being beneficial). This is gospel! Even actual bankruptcy cannot dispel this.

 

[Rarity]

Found better info at teslainvestorsclub, maybe someone of you with access to linkedin can crosscheck there (bolding by myself):

Here is the entry in his LinkedIn profile. The way that LinkedIn works, he could have worked at Tesla for as little as two days: July 31 and August 1.

Of course, he could have been asked to come in and give them a boost on this particular topic for a limited time. But I guess my question still stands. What particular insight does he have into Tesla/SpaceX/Neuralink/TBC and what is more general stuff?

To be clear, I'm interested in this topic, even though I know little about it. But who knows, maybe Tesla tried to implement some methods, but discarded them. We may be none the wiser.

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

Anyone who tries to imply correlation with 'largest stock price rise' while working somewhere for a maximum of two months is a charlatan.

I lived on planet earth while humanity went to the moon. Please hire me.

 

[Knightshade]

Historic reference: Osborne Computers. Osborne II killed in the womb because it had been yapped about, so company BK'd.
Not recommendable, generally.

Hilariously- this isn't actually what happened at Osborne.

In Osbornes case there was already a better, cheaper, computer on the market from Kaypro that was already hitting their sales before they announced their next model at all... (and to be clear, the cheaper Kaypro was better than the NEW one they announced, let alone the old one).

Sales were slow on the NEW model because of that.... though even then it was turning profitable and the company probably would've been fine....except for an even bigger problem -- a VP found they had a ton of leftover mainboards for the old model worth 150k and rather than write them off he convinced them to make complete systems out of them- which ended up costing the company millions they didn't have.


It wasn't the announcement of the new product that killed em- it was that even the new product was inferior to competitors, plus management incompetence apart from anything competition related.


Not to say there aren't ACTUAL examples of companies hurting themselves with new product announcements- but the fact everyone calls it Obsorning when it's largely a myth that it's really what killed Osborn is amusing.

Anyone who tries to imply correlation with 'largest stock price rise' while working somewhere for a maximum of two months is a charlatan.

In the video he also did a pretty cringy thing early on where he "explains" to us that he was there for a 500% rise in the value of the company which, according to him is "called a 5:1 stock split"

Still, interesting video if you skip over his sales stuff and plugging his book several times.

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1444749111262068743

Plus we have a short squeeze at some point still to come - 3% of float but effectively higher due to number of puts (Factchecking suggesting total is more like 8+% of float).
20% of float total....

 

[Featsbeyond50]

Apparently Tesla has expanded its lawsuit against Rivian for poaching IP. Sounds like there was some core technology theft on the 4680 cells.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I wouldn't be surprised if Elon tries to bomb Rivian's IPO via twitter given these rather egregious thefts.

I'm puzzled by this. Where does open source patents end and IP poaching begin?

 

[RobDickinson]

Tesla only share patents under certain conditions (i.e. mutual patent sharing etc), few companies have taken that offer up and certainly not Rivian.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

I'm puzzled by this. Where does open source patents end and IP poaching begin?

This is a common misconception. Tesla did NOT open up all of its patents. It opened up some of them years ago.....and that only applied to the patents back then, not future IP. Furthermore, it stipulated that the other company has to open up some of it's patents as well.

Edit: Beaten

 

[Thumper]

One gray, one red plaid available for immediate delivery at Washington Square Portland Oregon.

 

[Krugerrand]

You're not the Moderator of this forum. This is serious misinformation. Refreshed Models X will use 18650s for years to come. Full stop.

Providing wiggle room to perpetuate known false narratives out of a "sense of fairness" doesn't advance the Mission, it delays it.

What's worse, it's the casual reader or newcomer that will be most influenced by your attempt at distraction.

@mongo and @Artful Dodger - I’m polishing up those dueling pistols for y’all.

 

[MP3Mike]

I'm puzzled by this. Where does open source patents end and IP poaching begin?

In addition to what other people said, the IP they stole may not be covered by a patent. (Like hiring practices, wages/bonuses paid/etc.)

 

[SPadival]

IMO a factory to make batteries for energy storage in Australia makes a lot of sense, a factory to make cars in Australia is a real long shot..

3 shut down car factories around me in Melbourne in 3 different directions