Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Artful Dodger]

I don't get why Tesla is doing so much better than everyone else and gets punished more. Stock market makes no sense.

It's simple:

• big money bet against Tesla
• bigly on the wrong side of the bet
• big carbon doesn't want Tesla to succeed
• big gov't is in the pockets of big carbon
• big auto is a big employer
• big labor is bigly frightened

Should I go on? The only way out is through. There's a planet (or 2) at stake.

 

[mongo]

Now that I have a chance, I looked this up and it appears that Elon would be within the 20 day window post earnings, in which he would be able to sell shares without having a previously approved selling plan. We'll probably find out soon, but I'd bet he sold shares today.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1164964/000101968715004168/globalfuture_8k-ex9904.htm

No no no no no no no no no no no (this has happened before, thanks Google)
That is not an SEC rule. That is the policy of a single company "Global Future City Holding Inc.". It's in the URL and the document.

Tesla: tsla-def14a_20210826.htm

Stock Transactions


Hedging, Short Sales and Rule 10b5-1 Trading Plans


Tesla has an insider trading policy that prohibits all of our directors, officers and employees from, among other things, engaging in short sales, hedging or similar transactions designed to decrease the risks associated with holding Tesla securities. This prohibition encompasses transactions in publicly-traded options, such as puts and calls, and other derivative securities with respect to Tesla securities, but not transactions designed to facilitate portfolio diversification, such as broad-based index options, futures or baskets.


In addition, two of Tesla’s current executive officers and two directors have entered into Rule 10b5-1 trading plans that are effective as of the date of this filing.


Pledging of Shares


The ability of our directors and executive officers to pledge Tesla stock for personal loans and investments is inherently related to their compensation due to our use of equity awards and promotion of long-termism and an ownership culture. See “Executive Compensation—Pledging of Shares” below for more details on Tesla’s policy regarding the pledging of Tesla stock by such individuals.


Stock Ownership by Board and Management


To align the interests at the highest level of our management with those of our stockholders, the Board has instituted the following requirements relating to stock ownership under our Corporate Governance Guidelines.


Each member of the Board and our Chief Executive Officer is subject to the following minimum stock ownership requirements: (i) each director shall own shares of Tesla stock equal in value to at least five times the annual cash retainer for directors (exclusive of retainer amounts for service as Lead Independent Director or as a member or chair of a Board committee), and (ii) our Chief Executive Officer shall own shares of Tesla stock equal in value to at least six times his/her base salary. Each individual shall have five years from the later of March 3, 2015 and the date such person assumed his or her relevant role at Tesla to come into compliance with these ownership requirements. Each person’s compliance with the minimum stock ownership level will be determined on the date when this compliance grace period expires, and then annually on each December 31, by multiplying the number of shares held by such person and the average closing price of those shares during the preceding month. Our Chief Executive Officer and each of our directors is currently either in compliance with these requirements or is in the applicable period to come into compliance therewith.


Our Corporate Governance Guidelines also provide that no equity award as to which vesting or the lapse of a period of restriction occurs based solely on the passage of time that is granted to a named executive officer may vest, or have a period of restriction that lapses, earlier than six months from the date on which such vesting or lapse commences. Furthermore, our Corporate Governance Guidelines provide that no named executive officer may sell, transfer, pledge, assign or otherwise dispose of any shares of Tesla stock acquired pursuant to any stock option, restricted stock unit or other equity award granted by Tesla earlier than the date that is six months after the date on which such award vests or the period of restriction with respect to such award lapses, as applicable.

 

[nativewolf]

A friend texted me this. Thoughts?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519084191199248384

man that is like waving a bloody steak in front of a starving hyena (shotze) . I could see the market walking TSLA down another 12-15% tomorrow as these things sort themselves out. That's crazy leverage for this stock in my opinion, hope he doesn't do it that way. Go find some investors.

 

[nativewolf]

Meh. He can post more shares as collateral and he has lots of it. I think around 170 million shares.

The bigger outstanding question is how he is gonna raise the 16 odd billion in equity that's still needed to close the transaction.

1. Let existing Twitter share holders roll their holdings into a private Twitter

2. 4 billion of cash on Twitter balance sheet that's his to use at closing

3. Issue X company subordinate debt, that others can buy. Remember SpaceX had in the past bought scty bonds

4. Private equity funds who can go in with him. Thoma bravo was rumored. A lot of serial VCs who backed him like DFJ etc may be interested, but typically they write smaller checks. He did work with silver lake in the past.

5. Hit up his buddies like Ellison or Branson

6. Sell some Tsla

7. A bit of all or some of the above

He has too many options. I am in the camp that he sold some TSLA today and from his perspective, showing a bit of that cash will give him better leverage with the other options. He probably has a good sense of the split.

No that $4 billion is not his. That's the company and if there are other shareholders that's not his money.

 

[nativewolf]

Do people think there are a lot of existing twitter shareholders willing to go private with Elon? I don't know if there's a massive ..lets just say unreasonable fan base for twitter. Tesla shareholders are willing to go to zero with Elon, and will throw money at spaceX no matter the valuation. I don't think Twitter shareholders having similar passion Twitter.

How many non employee shareholders can they have and stay private? Is there any rule on that?

 

[Cherry Wine]

I see the hot topic on here today is whether Elon is/was/will be selling $TSLA to fund $TWTR. Just a reminder that all it means is a different person ends up owning those shares. The effect on Tesla the company? - none whatsoever.

Whatever the reason for today's drop, my only interest is that I was able to add 40 more shares at prices I didn't expect to see again. As for Elon selling or not, I'm unconcerned because any effect is short term, and that's not why I'm invested in Tesla.

Today was my 2nd biggest ever one day dollar loss and yet I regard it as a good day because I now own 40 more shares in this outstanding company. As I've said before, we know how this ends.

I would say that the difference between Elon and someone else owning those shares is that the former essentially locks them away for a very long time, but I'm not so sure about that anymore.

 

[Cherry Wine]

How many non employee shareholders can they have and stay private? Is there any rule on that?

2,000 was the number I saw.

 

[Artful Dodger]

while I know that the CyberTruck will have a form of crab steering, does anyone think that it might also have a form of tank steering

Tank steering is skid steering. It doesn't require the wheels to toe in or out, it just requires the L/R sides to spin at different speeds. This is almost certainly why Tesla has decided upon 4 motors (1 independant/wheel) for Plaid CT, rather than the previous 3 motor design. With the independent motors, all sorts of torque-vectored maneouvers are possible, including tank-turns.

 

[Krugerrand]

A friend texted me this. Thoughts?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519084191199248384

Get a new friend?

 

[Knightshade]

Meh. He can post more shares as collateral and he has lots of it. I think around 170 million shares.

He can't use more than 25% of the value of his pledged holdings.

Even worse- if the value of the shares drop, such that he has more than that leveraged, he must repay the difference.

See below including an example from Tesla.

directors and executive officers may pledge their stock (exclusive of options, warrants, restricted stock units or other rights to purchase stock) as collateral for loans and investments, provided that the maximum aggregate loan or investment amount collateralized by such pledged stock does not exceed twenty-five percent (25%) of the total value of the pledged stock.

They even provide a helpful example:

Example: A director pledges 1,000 shares as collateral for a loan, and the current stock price is $800 per share. The director may borrow up to 25% of 1,000 x $800, or $200,000, against such shares. If the stock price later increases to $1,600 per share, the director may borrow up to an additional $200,000 against the pledged shares. If the director borrows the full allowable amount of $400,000 and the stock price then decreases to $1,200, the director must repay $100,000 to maintain compliance with the 25% limit under the pledging policy.

 

[willow_hiller]

man that is like waving a bloody steak in front of a starving hyena (shotze) . I could see the market walking TSLA down another 12-15% tomorrow as these things sort themselves out. That's crazy leverage for this stock in my opinion, hope he doesn't do it that way. Go find some investors.

This is what's motivated my thoughts on today.
I don't think Elon would sell TSLA so quickly before lining up cash from other investors.

If bears had the opportunity to spook the market, trigger stop losses, and make people think Elon was selling, they'd take it.

But that's the last I'll speculate until we see or don't see an SEC filings within 48 hours.

On a related note, when does the meeting of "falling knife catchers anonymous" begin?

 

[Cosmacelf]

Do people think there are a lot of existing twitter shareholders willing to go private with Elon? I don't know if there's a massive ..lets just say unreasonable fan base for twitter. Tesla shareholders are willing to go to zero with Elon, and will throw money at spaceX no matter the valuation. I don't think Twitter shareholders having similar passion Twitter.

Yes, I think some large funds will be happy owning part of another company whose strategic direction is steered by Elon. Regardless of political opinions, I would jump at the chance of being a long term Twitter shareholder right now if I could. And I say that as a person who in the past hated Twitter.

BTW, I have come to realize Twitter's usefulness in fast changing world events like the Canadian trucker protests in my hometown of Ottawa, and the Russian war against Ukraine. Twitter has been a good source of on the ground reporting.

Given how stagnant the feature set has been, I'm excited to see what new features a superuser like Elon adds.

 

[elasalle]

Buying Twitter ... Genius
Buying without the funds secured .. Hubris



(+ personally all in Tesla ... crazy ...)

 

[mrmage]

Can someone please tell me if TSLA is going to be positive tomorrow….asking for a friend…

TSLA will go up tomorrow. And down. And up. And down.

 

[JRP3]

“Ready to sell shares if needed”

I'm really hoping this is fake news. Even being willing to sell Tesla shares for this Twitter distraction seems highly misguided. Tesla > Twitter x 1,000 at least.

 

[Richard007]

- Found some change in the couch and the garage, and picked up some (a lot) of shares today.

- Will buy more more if it drops again

- Might buy some twitter just in case I get to be part of private co. Fun days.

 

[SN_8]

Tesla shareholders are willing to go to zero with Elon

Spoiler: Oh yeah

 

[vikings123]

I'm really hoping this is fake news. Even being willing to sell Tesla shares for this Twitter distraction seems highly misguided. Tesla > Twitter x 1,000 at least.

Agreed. Elon said this Twitter buy is not about economics but you would think one of the smartest entrepreneurs of all time would not be stupid enough to sell his TSLA shares especially with the runway it has ahead of it. Well that’s my hope anyway.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Bradford 🛰 on Twitter: "It's possible that banks are selling $TSLA or buying puts to cover or hedge their loan to Elon." / Twitter

This ought to be visible in today's trading if true. Could someone kindly post today's Options trading Volume chart? TIA.​

​

TSLA Open Interest, Volume and Max Pain​

Paging @Papafox for your take on Options trading today.

 

[Singuy]

Agreed. Elon said this Twitter buy is not about economics but you would think one of the smartest entrepreneurs of all time would not be stupid enough to sell his TSLA shares especially with the runway it has ahead of it. Well that’s my hope anyway.

Oh no no. Elon would sell his oldest core shares just so he can overpay in taxes to fund Twitter.

His last sale of Tesla shares had about zero strategy but purposely did it in a style where he pays the most taxes and caused the most pain to shareholders.