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I got my new Y LR last week earlier than the Sept ETA as a friend made it happen. Bad news is I tanked the Q2 earnings as I only paid $48,900. Sorry everyone. Best part is I sold my 2018 LR 3 to Driveway for the price of the Y OTD. Love that ROI!
The prices Driveway is paying makes me want to sell my 3...
I did not believe it until the funds cleared. Was easy and fast. I 'm seeing many people selling there and they were $15K above others like Carmax.

Long before Elon said a Tesla would be an appreciating asset at the first AI day (if I recall), I wrote that the Model 3 would have industry leading resale value. People laughed in my face and said that was impossible. The Model 3 has build quality issues, reliability problems as it ages, there will be the latest and greatest on the market for less money, the battery has a limited lifespan, EV's never have great resale value, etc, etc. etc.

Look who's laughing now! I never thought it would appreciate in value (in some cases) but I think COVID helped with that.
My 2021 Model Y with 18,000 miles on it has been absolutely perfect. No problems with customer service in Denver. I have no idea what your talking about. I would say that I'm in the silent majority, not the select few that vent on internet forums.

I have always been a person to "never sweat the small stuff". I have never previously inspected a new purchased car.
Maybe I did a quick walk around . . . .listened to the salesman tell me how the radio worked and off I went. I had never heard of panel gaps.

But with my Model Y purchase last December, I was ready !!!
I checked for panel gaps . . .opened trunk and frunk . . .checked the paint . . .door alignment . . . .interior door panels . . . touch screen . . etc.
I wanted to find something . . . my delivery advisor was patient.
I found nothing. The car was perfect.

I'm on my second Tesla since early 2013. Neither car has had any particular problems. Quality is just as good as any other car I've had for the past fifty years (and some were far worse). The worst customer service I've had from Tesla I would describe as average. Most has been much better than average. Just like every car, some will have issues (either with the car or with the service), this is not unique to Tesla. About the complaints in this and other forums: Typically if a person is upset about something they post many times in many places, so one complaint looks like a dozen. Also there are some who post complaints but have never owned a Tesla. No idea what the percentage might be. There are also some who purchase the car expecting it to be a panacea--in the end it's a car, a good car, but still a car.

My 2018 3 wasn't perfect, but it was pretty damn good. Slight panel issue on the hood and I ended up getting a taillight and stalk replaced. I've bought plenty of new cars in my life, and I have yet to have one that is perfect. Doubt I ever will.

My 2018 model 3 has 67,000 miles on it and I've only changed the tires nothing else it runs like the day I picked it up

I'm going to pick up my brand new model y later this week so then I will be all Tesla.

We bought our first two Teslas in ‘17. An S75 (day before it was dropped from the line up) and an X75. The latter within months of the S. Sight unseen.

Loved both cars. Did they have initial quality problems? Damn right. But Tesla happily fixed everything. They were our two favorite vehicles. Until.

We received our ‘22MYP for the wife and a ‘22SPlaid for me.

The YP’s quality is night and day better than the X of it’s time. Panel gaps, paint, fit. Just a solid vehicle that deserves its price tag not just because it is an EV.

My SP is also made by a more mature Tesla. Yes, I had an issue that grounded it at Sevice for 3 weeks. But it is perfect now.

I have told everyone.
  • Buy it.
  • Let them fix everything that matters.
  • Love it trouble free for years.
That’s honestly my experience.

Best looking rear ends on the market.

Back on topic. The rapid decline has my stomach in knots as I was set to retire next year. But I’m not panicking. Holding as it will come back.

Cuz the damn cars are awesome. Demand is there in spades. As is the incredible ballooning margins. Capacity is growing but will not exceed demand for many years.

And yes, we have Tesla solar including 3 PowerWalls (the fourth is a generation zero unit that’s not even called a PowerWall!).



Positivity thread.
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From early 1980's experience I agree completely on your observations. I never knew Gates, but several of my then-colleagues knew him and dealt with him. In those years the tech community was fairly small so people knew each other quite well... Gates was still around then, scrounging for advantages then off to Seattle. Remember that he did not develop DOS, he licensed it. He was aggressive and borderline on tactics even then...

Gates, and his pet pit bull Steve Ballmer, were well known for their "good guy/bad guy" negotiating tactics.
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They have huge amounts of training in recognizing objects in real time in meatspace.

Once you can recognize objects, you can start predicting their paths and build concepts like object permanence into your models. Having a 3D model of the real world with path prediction means you can build out collision avoidance algorithms.

The actual navigation isn't the problem. The big problem is translating meatspace into vectors (with object permanence). Once you do that, getting from point A to point B isn't a huge problem. There are piles of robots which can navigate buildings and even streets already. Most of them with much simpler models (and limits) than what Tesla has.

I think i said that in my reply. So Yes, i agree.

But they will also need training data specifically for non-outdoor road environments. Some cross pollination from the learnings of FSD will be useful but also need interior spaces and path predictions, etc for the bots.
You should go talk to @The Accountant. Says his is perfect. (Don't drive it then!)

There are panel gap people and then there's the rest of us. I see it as a personality flaw when everything must be perfect. Control issues, never really satisfied. There's nothing like a perfect "looking" car, but it's all most can measure besides a test drive. But have you heard about Cpk???

For all the quality metrics and variables in any vehicle's production, visual artifacts are pretty low on my list (unless obvious). It says nothing about Cpk (measure of process stability and control). We can't know those numbers externally, but we can see them in cost of warranty dropping over time. That's a much better public facing quality metric IMHO.

She may look good, but will she last as long as the next one? That's Cpk and Quality speak. Door gaps are certain to be on the list, but nowhere near the number of variables in paint for example, or torque on bolts, or if a human touched something before application. Things we wouldn't know, but really matter. When robots take over production, quality will take on another step increase.

The only quality metrics that matters is the owners’ satisfaction index, period. and Tesla is at the top!
Which was which? The both seemed like doofuses to me.

Not at the negotiating table. Fortunately in my career in the computer biz, I never had to do much with MS or their products. (Am typing this via an ubuntu linux system. When forced to use a Windoze system, the first thing I do is download cygwin and friends.)
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Active Member
Feb 18, 2020
Tesla's appeal is the lowest, according to deceptive ranking by JD Power. Like TSLA stock price, it is only so long before it can't be ignored.

Hah, "NOTE: Brand is not rank eligible because it does not meet study award criteria."

Translated: "Tesla is not rank eligible because it does not pay J.D. Power advertising revenue." :p


Well-Known Member
May 15, 2016
San Diego, CA
Tesla's appeal is the lowest, according to deceptive ranking by JD Power. Like TSLA stock price, it is only so long before it can't be ignored.

Seriously, this pisses me off. Can they be sued for deceptive "whatever"? To me, looks like they purposely manipulated the "study aware criteria" to keep Tesla from ranking.


Active Member
Feb 25, 2016
Tesla's appeal is the lowest, according to deceptive ranking by JD Power. Like TSLA stock price, it is only so long before it can't be ignored.
Even though it’s at the bottom, to me it ranks highest based on the number but only “unofficially”. I actually think this is flattering to Tesla.

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