Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[MC3OZ]

It's pricey for FSD. It's wildly underpriced for full autonomy. Since full autonomy is not very close, why not sell FSD for a much lower price and then hit us up again when FA is ready? Or, are we already going to be charged again for full autonomy? (I'm on my third FSD license and never use it. Only bought it because I thought that it would become full autonomy some day and very valuable.)

I would like to see additional discounts specifically for customers like you.

My suggestions:-

• 50% discount when trading in a car with FSD. (already exists in some places)
• Additional loyalty discounts up to 10% - 1% per year of FSD ownership, 0.25% per year of Tesla vehicle ownership.

 

[lafrisbee]

Was just thinking about that also, is the FSD price at the time of reservation really going to be honored?

That would be amazing, for the reservation holders and for Tesla. All Cybertrucks will be sold with FSD, it makes no sense not to, at $7&8k.

a couple of things.
First I bet you that Tesla won't give it to you at that price IF you did not put it in at the time you ordered.
And second... I figure they will if you did because it won't cost them anything extra, like with raw materials and inflation.
EDIT: I only remember them using a term like "locked in" for FSD with the Cyber(nota)truck.

 

[bobfunn]

Reading some of these comments, sometimes I think I am the only one that sees FSD as more than just a fun toy to show off to your friends and impress your neighbors. This thing is life changing. It will open up mobility to huge portions of the population that have had their independence taken from them. It will give back to them the dignity they have lost for whatever reason by foring them to rely on others for their transportation needs.
I have been saying for years that when this technology reaches true level 5 functionality, it will be literally priceless to those that would be homebound without it. We should be rejoicing that it is coming to fruition, not bemoaning the price being asked for it. It will literally be worth at least as much as the car it is in to those that, without it, the car is literally a useless pile of metal.

Dan

I totally believe its a game changer and will give mobility to so many and is absolutely the future, I just don't see the value in it for a normal driver (me) especially when the price keeps going up and I may not even qualify to get it.
Like, even if I do get it I can't use it to make money or send it out to pick up my mother.
It seems like its for a segment of society of which some of us are not in need of, so wheres the value for me and people like me if I spend 15k for it in a couple of weeks?

 

[Thekiwi]

Unintended consequences now for aging cars with the appropriate FSD hardware & FSD purchased: multiple refurbishments to keep them on the road for decades, at the very least new battery replacements.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

The whole "biggest asset value increase" with FSD thing only applies to people who want to let their car drive around without them, which lets be realistic isn't most Tesla owners.

I bought FSD when it was discounted a few years ago as an add-on to my EAP because I am hoping to some day not have nag during TACC w/ lane keeping (aka regular autopilot). NoAP on highways would be nice for road trips but just a perk, and I have almost zero use case for FSD on city streets, even if it was 100% functional all the time.

Nobody really knows how they'll utilize this til it's widely available. And soon after that people's opinions will change even more once it's ubiquitous.

We beat the iPhone metaphor to death here, but I see FSD very much looking like smartphone adoption. A few people you know gave em for a few years, then snap your fingers and everyone's got it.

Today I couldn't see myself using FSD or god forbid letting my car roam around town giving people rides on the Tesla network. But I bet Elon will have plenty of ways for me to loan it out to only friend of friends, etc....

We're all gonna be using this stuff.

 

[TN Mtn Man]

I was going to suggest exactly this, but there is a bit of weirdness around this.

The big problem with either of our interpretations is there are some big legal and liability issues involved which is a secondary burden.

In this case, the big issue is DWI is a huge source of revenue for most police forces/municipalities. They aren't going to give that up just because a person is in an autonomous vehicle , IMHO.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

I totally believe its a game changer and will give mobility to so many and is absolutely the future, I just don't see the value in it for a normal driver (me) especially when the price keeps going up and I may not even qualify to get it.
Like, even if I do get it I can't use it to make money or send it out to pick up my mother.
It seems like its for a segment of society of which some of us are not in need of, so wheres the value for me and people like me if I spend 15k for it in a couple of weeks?

That's an easy one....don't buy it. Done

Dan

 

[82bert]

The whole "biggest asset value increase" with FSD thing only applies to people who want to let their car drive around without them, which lets be realistic isn't most Tesla owners.

I bought FSD when it was discounted a few years ago as an add-on to my EAP because I am hoping to some day not have nag during TACC w/ lane keeping (aka regular autopilot). NoAP on highways would be nice for road trips but just a perk, and I have almost zero use case for FSD on city streets, even if it was 100% functional all the time.

Once we get our CT, we will keep our 2018 to start out on Turo and hopefully one day robotaxi network. The low price we paid for FSD is too good to give up.

 

[Dutchie]

The whole "biggest asset value increase" with FSD thing only applies to people who want to let their car drive around without them, which lets be realistic isn't most Tesla owners.

I bought FSD when it was discounted a few years ago as an add-on to my EAP because I am hoping to some day not have nag during TACC w/ lane keeping (aka regular autopilot). NoAP on highways would be nice for road trips but just a perk, and I have almost zero use case for FSD on city streets, even if it was 100% functional all the time.

Is it really?

Say you want to go to to town and you don’t want to pay for parking. Just send you car on its way to a spot with free parking;
You got to your work and as soon as you are there send the car home so your spouse can use it to bring kids to school and fo other stuff. It eliminates the need to have multiple cars in the family;
You need to go to the airport, after the car dropped you off, send the car home. No issues with asking friends to take you there, long term parking or taking a taxi.
etc.
etc.

No need to have a Robotaxi to save money with FSD

edit: come to think of it. Your spouse does not need to bring children to school. Car can do it by itself…

 

[bobfunn]

That's an easy one....don't buy it. Done

Dan

Oh that IS easy, I'm not getting it for my MYP but I do have the 7k version on my CyberTruck preorder. But it doesn't answer the question some seem to be advocating, what is the 15k value proposition for normal drivers, there isn't one?

It seems odd to me considering we're the ones being asked to pay ever increasing prices for it. It doesn't seem like it would just be a block for people trying to build their own FSD fleet but who knows.

 

[Drumheller]

Reading some of these comments, sometimes I think I am the only one that sees FSD as more than just a fun toy to show off to your friends and impress your neighbors. This thing is life changing. It will open up mobility to huge portions of the population that have had their independence taken from them. It will give back to them the dignity they have lost for whatever reason by foring them to rely on others for their transportation needs.
I have been saying for years that when this technology reaches true level 5 functionality, it will be literally priceless to those that would be homebound without it. We should be rejoicing that it is coming to fruition, not bemoaning the price being asked for it. It will literally be worth at least as much as the car it is in to those that, without it, the car is literally a useless pile of metal.

Dan

How are those that are homebound going to afford it? Doesn't matter how good a product is if people can't afford it.

 

[MC3OZ]

How are those that are homebound going to afford it? Doesn't matter how good a product is if people can't afford it.

To hire it when you need it, is not as expensive as owning it, in fact it is cheaper than normal car ownership.

Someone who can not legally drive would probably choose not to own a car.

 

[SmokyPeat]

I noticed the TSLA charts on Google and IBKR are already temporarily wonky if you zoom out several years. Had a conversation with my cousin today in which he mentioned an acquaintance at a party back in '08 was quite emphatic that he should invest every spare cent in Tesla. Unfortunately, he didn't. He's a psychologist in Manhattan and I was quite surprised that he didn't seem to have much exposure to the cars themselves. His sister is a post doc in environmental science at Berkeley, and must be much more familiar in that environment. Had the same experience with another cousins husband who is a brilliant engineer in speech recognition software. He worked at IBM until last year, and they also live in Manhattan. He also has a sister living in California that has to be much more exposed to the cars. They haven't owned a car since they've lived in NYC though, so that may be part of it.

Anyhow, I was trying to find the stock price in '08, and had to go to yahoo finance to find it.

 

[MC3OZ]

The other relevant question is:-

Assuming Tesla gets FSD working, how long until the next competitor has it?

If solving FSD requires a lot of real world data, other car makers and solution providers don't have that volume of data.
Relying on simulation isn't guaranteed provide to be a viable path, there are many other paths such as HD maps, which don't seem viable or sustainable.

If necessary, other car makers can form an alliance to gather data.

Then there is the question if something like Dojo is needed to train with this high volume of data.

The path based on training with a massive amount of data isn't easy, Is it the only path? Or will another path work?

 

[SmokyPeat]

In this case, the big issue is DWI is a huge source of revenue for most police forces/municipalities. They aren't going to give that up just because a person is in an autonomous vehicle , IMHO.

I think the cars would have to be equipped with something like a breathalyzer apparatus that would lock out driving inputs from an intoxicated passenger.

 

[Prunesquallor]

The other relevant question is:-

Assuming Tesla gets FSD working, how long until the next competitor has it?

If solving FSD requires a lot of real world data, other car makers and solution providers don't have that volume of data.
Relying on simulation isn't guaranteed provide to be a viable path, there are many other paths such as HD maps, which don't seem viable or sustainable.

If necessary, other car makers can form an alliance to gather data.

Then there is the question if something like Dojo is needed to train with this high volume of data.

The path based on training with a massive amount of data isn't easy, Is it the only path? Or will another path work?

If the only solution is AI, extremely capable onboard computers, training supercomputers and millions of miles of real world data, then everyone else is screwed. Buy it from Tesla, Wario, and it won’t be cheap.

 

[Rammstein]

My favourite way to consume Tesla content is having Whole Mars self driving videos in the background with his awesome choice in music and reading this forum. So fun! Fsd 10.69 is looking pretty tight.

 

[mongo]

I noticed the TSLA charts on Google and IBKR are already temporarily wonky if you zoom out several years. Had a conversation with my cousin today in which he mentioned an acquaintance at a party back in '08 was quite emphatic that he should invest every spare cent in Tesla. Unfortunately, he didn't. He's a psychologist in Manhattan and I was quite surprised that he didn't seem to have much exposure to the cars themselves. His sister is a post doc in environmental science at Berkeley, and must be much more familiar in that environment. Had the same experience with another cousins husband who is a brilliant engineer in speech recognition software. He worked at IBM until last year, and they also live in Manhattan. He also has a sister living in California that has to be much more exposed to the cars. They haven't owned a car since they've lived in NYC though, so that may be part of it.

Anyhow, I was trying to find the stock price in '08, and had to go to yahoo finance to find it.

Stock price in 08? Must be private valuation since TSLA IPOed June 29th, 2010. There were three or four funding rounds before that.

 

[garrett5688]

I noticed the TSLA charts on Google and IBKR are already temporarily wonky if you zoom out several years. Had a conversation with my cousin today in which he mentioned an acquaintance at a party back in '08 was quite emphatic that he should invest every spare cent in Tesla. Unfortunately, he didn't. He's a psychologist in Manhattan and I was quite surprised that he didn't seem to have much exposure to the cars themselves. His sister is a post doc in environmental science at Berkeley, and must be much more familiar in that environment. Had the same experience with another cousins husband who is a brilliant engineer in speech recognition software. He worked at IBM until last year, and they also live in Manhattan. He also has a sister living in California that has to be much more exposed to the cars. They haven't owned a car since they've lived in NYC though, so that may be part of it.

Anyhow, I was trying to find the stock price in '08, and had to go to yahoo finance to find it.

I’m curious to know what yahoo finance reports as the stock price back in ‘08

 

[SmokyPeat]

Stock price in 08? Must be private valuation since TSLA IPOed June 29th, 2010. There were three or four funding rounds before that.

Doh, it was '11 not '08. Brain fart on my part- I grabbed 90% of my shares in '18.