Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[RobDickinson]

This review of the ORA Funky Cat EV from Great Wall Motors (China) is quite positive. The Western legacy automakers may be worried, but perhaps they should be terrified:

This, the MG4/5 and the BYD cars should be giving the European & Japanese manufacturers nightmares.

The MG4 is better than the ID3 at £10k less. And these companies are improving and growing rapidly.

 

[elasalle]

You think he sits at some trading portal clicking sell?

you think I was serious

 

[EVMeister]

This costs from ~15K to 20K per comments there.

Robert loves it and the car seems to be great.

In what currency? It retails for ~£32,000 in the UK. It is certainly a cheap vehicle for the Chinese to buy, but once exported the tariffs make it a significantly worse value proposition. I found this review from Carwow quite informative (and critical in some ways).

 

[RobDickinson]

BYD starts testing of new Land Rover-style electric off-road SUV

BYD has started testing of a new premium off-road electric SUV that looks very similar to the Land Rover.

thedriven.io

BYD swinging for Landrovers market now

 

[SmokyPeat]

yes, but for now, if you’re a buyer of a Y, you want the 2170 batteries. Hands down.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who either don't care, or want the latest iteration of the Model Y with structural pack.

 

[AudubonB]

It's "pronunciations"

And there, my friend, you are absolutely wrong (except that I agree the language should have so evolved). I made that word up like that on purpose.

 

[capster]

Ford and GM post the vast majority of their sales in the US at this point and their US revenues are largely protected from Chinese competition. That doesn't protect them from getting savaged by Tesla though.

A serious and motivated competitor that hones it’s game on the global market could find a way into the US market against US players who aren’t laser focused on success here. Frankly, the US OEM’s don‘t demonstrate the life or death seriousness about EV’s that they need to survive. There is less time than they think available to them.

In the video, the fellow mentions that reviews of smaller EV’s pull larger audiences than those for larger vehicles. Its a reasonable strategy to try to squeeze the Western legacy automakers from below against Tesla above.

If the Western legacy OEM’s are counting on protectionism to save them, they are delusional.

Further, there is a big difference between an appealing product and an unappealing (deliberately?) product.

Lots of fantastic Chinese made andriod phones and yet no one cares in the Western world. I am going to be forever in the camp that thinks EVs from China are competitive in China until many of them goes bankrupt, and will not make a dent in the U.S.

Everyone reviewing cars are reviewing half the car. The other half being the most important part is support infrastructure. Non-existent in the US and will remain non-existent for awhile. It's a "MAJOR" miracle Tesla has turned a corner as a new car company because it's stupid hard to convince enough people to buy your box that goes from A-B without a well established support infrastructure when there are established brands that can do the same for decades.

There aren’t nearly enough EV’s available in the West so there is unmet demand—ergo your analogy doesn’t hold. There is an opportunity to gain market share and roll out support. The US isn’t the first market to go after, but it is vulnerable given time.

Even if nearly all Chinese EV manufacturers go bankrupt, they won’t all do so because the CCP would not allow it.

Sometimes we forget that early buyers and even later model 3 buyers considered the very real possibility that Tesla would go under. At the time I wasn't worried as I was positive that absolute worst case someone would buy them out and service existing cars but who will bother to do that with some no-name Chinese company?

I dunno, maybe they could come by a brand that would fly in the US. Not necessarily saying they’ll be able to come by a Blue Oval, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility.

This costs from ~15K to 20K per comments there.

Robert loves it and the car seems to be great.

The cost is 32,790 Pounds. The Pound isn’t quite that weak (yet ), if you’re talking dollars.

 

[Blue horseshoe]

Tdameritrade had a headline from Reuters supposedly stating Murdoch, a Tesla shareholder, says musk identified a pototential successor in the last few months.

This coincided with a sudden drop in after hours trading. I give this a 0 credibility rating coming from reuters..

 

[jerry33]

A serious and motivated competitor that hones it’s game on the global market could find a way into the US market against US players who aren’t laser focused on success here. Frankly, the US OEM’s don‘t demonstrate the life or death seriousness about EV’s that they need to survive.

Why should they? It's cheaper to purchase politicians and get yet another bailout.

 

[RobDickinson]

Bail out and protectionist legislation. GM basically quit volume car sales in Europe and Australasia because they couldnt compete.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

There aren’t nearly enough EV’s available in the West so there is unmet demand—ergo your analogy doesn’t hold. There is an opportunity to gain market share and roll out support. The US isn’t the first market to go after, but it is vulnerable given time.

Even if nearly all Chinese EV manufacturers go bankrupt, they won’t all do so because the CCP would not allow it.

Chinese auto makers still have serious stigma issues to get past to ever be relevant in the US market. Even in Europe. The reason Toyota/Honda/Kia were able to make inroads into the US market was through efficiency. US legacy auto was bloated and gave that trio an opening and they took it. Otherwise, it's doubtful that Toyota/Honda/Kia would have ever become big players in the US market. Toyota still probably would have done ok since Japan had a reputation for high quality from the likes of Sony.

The Chinese still have the image of cheap, poor quality in the US. Thus the only way they make inroads into the US market is efficiency. Problem is....they're competing with Tesla, who is obsessed with efficiency. Combine that with the fact of Tesla's brand + the IRA giving local production/sourcing auto makers a massive advantage and yeah.........I agree with @Singuy , Chinese EV Auto makers will not make it through into the US market.

 

[SmokyPeat]

View attachment 875274

Tdameritrade had a headline from Reuters supposedly stating Murdoch, a Tesla shareholder, says musk identified a pototential successor in the last few months.

This coincided with a sudden drop in after hours trading. I give this a 0 credibility rating coming from reuters..

Pretty short lived drop. It doesn't even show on the google chart.

 

[CorneliusXX]

And there, my friend, you are absolutely wrong (except that I agree the language should have so evolved). I made that word up like that on purpose.

At this point it's more pronouncitations

 

[EVMeister]

View attachment 875274

Tdameritrade had a headline from Reuters supposedly stating Murdoch, a Tesla shareholder, says musk identified a pototential successor in the last few months.

This coincided with a sudden drop in after hours trading. I give this a 0 credibility rating coming from reuters..

Just wait for Elon to Tweet "False".

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Even if nearly all Chinese EV manufacturers go bankrupt, they won’t all do so because the CCP would not allow it.



I dunno, maybe they could come by a brand that would fly in the US. Not necessarily saying they’ll be able to come by a Blue Oval, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility.

GM was already importing cars from China, and Ford was planning to. Then tariffs were added and they had to stop.
Fine by me, because China has protectionist tariffs, subsidies and laws so they should be blocked as much as possible.

 

[willow_hiller]

In speaking of Reuters and FUD, I'm seeing this article posted all over social media as if it implicates Elon in any wrongdoing automatically:

Former director of Tesla Australia pleads guilty to insider trading

A former director of Tesla Inc's Australian unit pleaded guilty to two counts of insider trading tied to a supply deal the carmaker signed with Piedmont Lithium in 2020, the country's corporate watchdog said on Wednesday.

www.reuters.com

But you read into it, it's pretty low-level insider trading. Pretty stupid way to make $28k:

"The ASIC said Schlosser then sold his Piedmont shares for a profit of roughly $28,883 once the agreement became public and the stock price rose."

 

[Ogre]

A serious and motivated competitor that hones it’s game on the global market could find a way into the US market against US players who aren’t laser focused on success here. Frankly, the US OEM’s don‘t demonstrate the life or death seriousness about EV’s that they need to survive. There is less time than they think available to them.

I doubt the Chinese makers are worried about competing with GM & Ford in the US. They are worried about competing with Tesla in the US.

Tesla is doing fantastic in their home country. Here in the US where Tesla has big competitive advantages, an established presence, and government subsidies? That’s going to be a tougher nut to crack. Better for them to attack in Europe where it’s a more neutral play-field.

 

[Speedr117]

View attachment 875274

Tdameritrade had a headline from Reuters supposedly stating Murdoch, a Tesla shareholder, says musk identified a pototential successor in the last few months.

This coincided with a sudden drop in after hours trading. I give this a 0 credibility rating coming from reuters..

The Chancery Daily, which tweets from there, said the same thing:

https://twitter.com/chancery_daily?s=43

Not sure i the link is working, lol.

 

[Rarity]

If the Western legacy OEM’s are counting on protectionism to save them, they are delusional.

Don't know if it will save them, but I do think that protectionism could have a big impact. The US is decreasingly tolerant of a large trade deficit with China and Europe has always had less tolerance than the US on that score.

If Tesla didn't have a growing factory in Germany, you can bet that the Europeans would be pitching a fit about its imports into Europe from Shanghai.

 

[Doit]

Interest exchange about George Hotz working at Twitter for 12 weeks

https://twitter.com/x/status/1592977645645402112