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Wiki Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

KarenRei

ᴉǝɹuǝɹɐʞ
Jul 18, 2017
9,619
104,589
Iceland
Members of the EV Norway association did a satisfaction survey earlier this month - and recently updated the results page:

Hvilke elbil-modeller har de mest fornøyde eierne i år? Se topp-10 listen blant norske elbileiere her.

As many as 67.56 per cent of respondents give top scores and say they are "very satisfied" with their electric car, 24.46 per cent respond "satisfied" - while only 1.57 per cent are at the opposite end of the scale and have ticked off to the answer "very dissatisfied". The percentage that is just "dissatisfied" is the lowest, 0.77 percent.


Newcomer at the top

At the very top of the satisfaction peak is the newcomer Tesla Model 3, closely followed by its big brothers Model S and Model X.

VG's technology website Tek.no has also written about the survey, where Tesla's communications manager Even Sandvold Roland naturally says that he is happy with the results, but he also says that the company is working to establish a number of new service centers in Norway.

- It is nice to see that this survey also confirms that our customers are very satisfied. We have made great strides in terms of service capacity over the past year. Last summer, the wait time for service hours in the Oslo area was four months, now it is about two weeks, he tells the website.


Norwegian electric car owners top 10

These models have the most satisfied owners according to the Electric Car Association's survey. (The brackets show the percentage that said they were "very satisfied" with the car model.)

Tesla Model 3 (81.99)
Tesla Model S (81.94)
Tesla Model X (81.53)
Kia e-Niro (79.27)
Hyundai Kona (78.14)
Jaguar I-Pace (77.96)
BMW i3 (74.15)
Hyundai Ioniq (73.98)
Opel Ampera-e (73.11)
Audi e-tron (71.43)

Background: Facts about the Electric Car 2019

E-tron at the bottom of the list... interesting. I wonder if it's due to range disappointment.
 

Christine69420

Autopilot's Assistant
Supporting Member
Oct 19, 2018
1,349
16,695
Scandiwegian
E-tron at the bottom of the list... interesting. I wonder if it's due to range disappointment.

Well the latest video from Bjørn where he tests the range of the new Model X have some interesting numbers. Not favouring the e-Tron.

Atleast it's doing better than the e-Golf (in the survey). Better than anything from Volkswagen really. And better Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, anything from Mercedes, Mitshubishi MiEV, eSmart, and the Fiat e500.

Not bad for an e-Tron. :p
 

Krugerrand

Enough of the 🐩, back to 🐈‍⬛
Jul 13, 2012
11,591
66,068
Tesla friendly place
You have the right to protest.

You don't have the right to stop someone else performing their job and carrying out legal business.

You don't get that right because you believe you are on the side of angels.

That goes to abortion protestors as well as climate protesters. Left,Right, and Center.

Democracy can't function like that.

You’re being obtuse.
 

Krugerrand

Enough of the 🐩, back to 🐈‍⬛
Jul 13, 2012
11,591
66,068
Tesla friendly place
Members of the EV Norway association did a satisfaction survey earlier this month - and recently updated the results page:

Hvilke elbil-modeller har de mest fornøyde eierne i år? Se topp-10 listen blant norske elbileiere her.

As many as 67.56 per cent of respondents give top scores and say they are "very satisfied" with their electric car, 24.46 per cent respond "satisfied" - while only 1.57 per cent are at the opposite end of the scale and have ticked off to the answer "very dissatisfied". The percentage that is just "dissatisfied" is the lowest, 0.77 percent.


Newcomer at the top

At the very top of the satisfaction peak is the newcomer Tesla Model 3, closely followed by its big brothers Model S and Model X.

VG's technology website Tek.no has also written about the survey, where Tesla's communications manager Even Sandvold Roland naturally says that he is happy with the results, but he also says that the company is working to establish a number of new service centers in Norway.

- It is nice to see that this survey also confirms that our customers are very satisfied. We have made great strides in terms of service capacity over the past year. Last summer, the wait time for service hours in the Oslo area was four months, now it is about two weeks, he tells the website.


Norwegian electric car owners top 10

These models have the most satisfied owners according to the Electric Car Association's survey. (The brackets show the percentage that said they were "very satisfied" with the car model.)

Tesla Model 3 (81.99)
Tesla Model S (81.94)
Tesla Model X (81.53)
Kia e-Niro (79.27)
Hyundai Kona (78.14)
Jaguar I-Pace (77.96)
BMW i3 (74.15)
Hyundai Ioniq (73.98)
Opel Ampera-e (73.11)
Audi e-tron (71.43)

Background: Facts about the Electric Car 2019

Well, that can’t be right. Tesla service sucks. Fake news.
 

Fact Checking

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2018
7,517
120,763
Vienna
LG Chem mass producing NCM cyclical batteries for Tesla

Interesting additional info about GF3’s battery supply, although it contains a confusing comment about “longer driving distances per charge” on these batteries vs. Pana’s.

I've highlighted new information:

LG Chem has begun to mass produce batteries for Tesla’s Model 3 electric vehicles from its Nanjing plant in China, according to industry sources Sept. 18.

The US-based EV maker will be using LG Chem’ 21700 type batteries using NCM811 that boast a nickel proportion of 80% or more. The LG company previously supplied the NCM811 to electric buses. This is the first time to supply an automobile, the sources said.

Until now, Tesla has been supplied by Japan’s Panasonic, which uses NCA, which is another type of high nickel cathode material.

LG Chem convinced Tesla to switch to NCM811 batteries based on the longer driving distances per charge. It also hinted that it may be able to begin mass producing NCMA batteries, which is even higher in nickel, beginning in 2022 to apply to EVs.

The Model 3, which now receiving pre-orders in China, can run 480km on a single charge for the standard model. The cars sold in Korea are slightly heavier and have a single charge driving distance of 353km.

Upon requests from Tesla, LG Chem is now preparing to expand its battery lines. Already, it has doubled the production volume from its Nanjing plant from last year. Nanjing is where LG said in January this year that it would invest up to 1.2 trillion won to expand the facilities.

According to market research firm SNE Research, LG Chem is expected to churn out up to 1 billion cylindrical battery cells per year from Nanjing. In 2017, the firm was producing 630 million such cells.​

Does 480 km (298 miles) vs. 353 km (219 miles) range mean that LG Chem's new NCM811 based cells have 36% higher energy density?
 

dc_h

Active Member
Feb 14, 2015
3,551
13,477
Naperville, IL
View attachment 457198
Percent of TSLA selling by shorts today: 65%

Meanwhile, in the Wall Street Psychiatric Clinic
"Nurse, I have Mr. Papafox on sedatives. Whatever you do, don't show him today's percent of selling chart. Otherwise, we'll never cure this manipulation obsession of his."
They must have read our updated quarterly estimates of 81,050 to 82,500 Q3 deliveries. And they saw Shanghai will build the model 3 without electricity and use hand carts.
 

kbM3

Active Member
May 22, 2017
1,983
10,753
Orlando
I've highlighted new information:

LG Chem has begun to mass produce batteries for Tesla’s Model 3 electric vehicles from its Nanjing plant in China, according to industry sources Sept. 18.

The US-based EV maker will be using LG Chem’ 21700 type batteries using NCM811 that boast a nickel proportion of 80% or more. The LG company previously supplied the NCM811 to electric buses. This is the first time to supply an automobile, the sources said.

Until now, Tesla has been supplied by Japan’s Panasonic, which uses NCA, which is another type of high nickel cathode material.

LG Chem convinced Tesla to switch to NCM811 batteries based on the longer driving distances per charge. It also hinted that it may be able to begin mass producing NCMA batteries, which is even higher in nickel, beginning in 2022 to apply to EVs.

The Model 3, which now receiving pre-orders in China, can run 480km on a single charge for the standard model. The cars sold in Korea are slightly heavier and have a single charge driving distance of 353km.

Upon requests from Tesla, LG Chem is now preparing to expand its battery lines. Already, it has doubled the production volume from its Nanjing plant from last year. Nanjing is where LG said in January this year that it would invest up to 1.2 trillion won to expand the facilities.

According to market research firm SNE Research, LG Chem is expected to churn out up to 1 billion cylindrical battery cells per year from Nanjing. In 2017, the firm was producing 630 million such cells.​

Does 480 km (298 miles) vs. 353 km (219 miles) range mean that LG Chem's new NCM811 based cells have 36% higher energy density?

I have trouble believing the Chinese version of the model three standard range, will have longer range, than the rest of the world. Battery researchers often like to quote their battery capacities as miles driven. Even though this makes no sense, they often do it. Even Jeff Dahn did with the 1M mile battery.

My guess would be that LG Chem released some technical information, and it was misinterpreted by media.

I.e. if it is more energy dense, I would imagine that would go to reducing weight and cost, not to increasing battery size.
 

mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
13,486
42,178
Michigan
Does 480 km (298 miles) vs. 353 km (219 miles) range mean that LG Chem's new NCM811 based cells have 36% higher energy density?

Probably, with the trade off of less power. Which is likely a non issue for a lower performance variant (max charging rate may also be impacted). I think increased cycle life too. (Tesla Energy type).

OT:
The James Bond movie The World Is Not Enough had helicopers with saw blade.
 

elasalle

driVIN(188xx) it !!
Jan 26, 2016
4,598
27,040
VA
I have trouble believing the Chinese version of the model three standard range, will have longer range, than the rest of the world. Battery researchers often like to quote their battery capacities as miles driven. Even though this makes no sense, they often do it. Even Jeff Dahn did with the 1M mile battery.

My guess would be that LG Chem released some technical information, and it was misinterpreted by media.

I.e. if it is more energy dense, I would imagine that would go to reducing weight and cost, not to increasing battery size.

If Battery Has longer range, They will use a smaller Battery Pack ...
 
Sep 4, 2018
1,047
13,413
You have the right to protest.

You don't have the right to stop someone else performing their job and carrying out legal business.

You don't get that right because you believe you are on the side of angels.

That goes to abortion protestors as well as climate protesters. Left,Right, and Center.

Democracy can't function like that.

without protesters causing mass inconvenience my wife would not have the right to vote, and india would still be ruled by the british.
 

KarenRei

ᴉǝɹuǝɹɐʞ
Jul 18, 2017
9,619
104,589
Iceland
I've highlighted new information:

LG Chem has begun to mass produce batteries for Tesla’s Model 3 electric vehicles from its Nanjing plant in China, according to industry sources Sept. 18.

The US-based EV maker will be using LG Chem’ 21700 type batteries using NCM811 that boast a nickel proportion of 80% or more. The LG company previously supplied the NCM811 to electric buses. This is the first time to supply an automobile, the sources said.

Until now, Tesla has been supplied by Japan’s Panasonic, which uses NCA, which is another type of high nickel cathode material.

LG Chem convinced Tesla to switch to NCM811 batteries based on the longer driving distances per charge. It also hinted that it may be able to begin mass producing NCMA batteries, which is even higher in nickel, beginning in 2022 to apply to EVs.

The Model 3, which now receiving pre-orders in China, can run 480km on a single charge for the standard model. The cars sold in Korea are slightly heavier and have a single charge driving distance of 353km.

Upon requests from Tesla, LG Chem is now preparing to expand its battery lines. Already, it has doubled the production volume from its Nanjing plant from last year. Nanjing is where LG said in January this year that it would invest up to 1.2 trillion won to expand the facilities.

According to market research firm SNE Research, LG Chem is expected to churn out up to 1 billion cylindrical battery cells per year from Nanjing. In 2017, the firm was producing 630 million such cells.​

Does 480 km (298 miles) vs. 353 km (219 miles) range mean that LG Chem's new NCM811 based cells have 36% higher energy density?

This is utter tripe. China rates cars on NEDC, a nonsensically range-inflating cycle. South Korea rates cars on a cycle that yields even lower ranges than the EPA 5-cycle. 480km is also not the rating for Chinese Model 3s (SR+) with some super new "LG cell", but rather their current production from Fremont.

upload_2019-9-21_13-23-58.png


Here's South Korea's rating for the exact same SR+ cars from Fremont:

upload_2019-9-21_13-26-3.png


The author of this article is grossly unaware of the difference between drivecycles. I expect better from this forum, however. ;)

And LP didn't "convince Tesla" of the superiority of anything. They went with what they could get in the crazy-short-notice of GF3 construction that would yield acceptable performance. They'll be ditched as soon as Tesla switches to their own cell production.
 
Last edited:

hacer

Active Member
Apr 13, 2016
1,161
5,275
Clarksville, MD
If they don't affect the SP, then how are they "manipulations"?
It goes like this: A market maker wants the price to be much lower. They submit short sales of say 250,000 shares using a waterfall approach: They will execute against all of the order books, gobbling up all the highest 250,000 shares of standing buy limit orders, but doing it over a period of a minute or two. The market makers generally also have insight into most of these buy limit orders, so they can estimate just how big a drop they will cause. Say it causes a $6 dollar drop in about two minutes. Now this huge drop has the potential to spook retail market participants, many of whom will be scrambling to figure out what news do big insiders have that they don't? Some of them will decide to sell too. Over the next several hours (or several days sometimes - market makers are allowed to have FTDs for many days too!) they buy back these naked shorts with many small ~500 share orders at the "new" lower prices they caused with their artificial mini-crash.

The buying back does have an upward effect on price, but it is smaller because it is drawn out over a long period of time. If the market maker sees actual strong buying interest before they have bought back their shares, then they can cap it with limit sell (naked short again) orders such that large buying volume does not raise the price much. If they do that, it will increase the size of their short so it's likely they will also extend the time over which they cover. The point is that this is done to control market psychology - that this stock is being dumped by big players, so now is not the time to buy and maybe it is the time to sell. Coordinating it with some bogus news, downgrade or such just adds to the psychological force.

The SEC rules allow them to do this for the supposed reason of providing orderly markets. I'm sure the MM would say that they are "adding liquidity" to the market, but there is no need for them to say anything because the SEC does not care what they do.
 
Last edited:

Sean Wagner

Member
Mar 2, 2016
612
2,398
-
Members of the EV Norway association did a satisfaction survey earlier this month - and recently updated the results page:

That's fantastic feedback. I'm quite frankly elated. It would be great if you could keep us abreast of developments.

Tesla is going to reap massive benefits by word of mouth alone if it can deliver relatively problem free vehicles and right its servicalypse [mouthful], while conversely, the chances of successfully selling a European Gigafactory's output dim if this crucial part of car ownership gets overshadowed by seemingly more immediate concerns.

What happened to the e-Golf? It seems to sell pretty well, so simply doesn't make the top ten of the survey? Could it be that VAG dealers don't like EVs?


E-tron at the bottom of the list... interesting. I wonder if it's due to range disappointment.

That's why the e-tron is so remarkably well insulated: it respectfully shields pedestrians from drivers' sobs aka range rage.

I couldn't resist.
 

SpeedGoat

Member
Nov 3, 2018
133
915
usa
I feel like you guys are talking past each other. I don’t think the argument is: “people should be able to just randomly block any construction trucks they want for any reason with no punishment”. Rather, it’s that 25 years in prison is an absurd(and arguably unconstitutional) sentence for such an offense. If an 18 year old kid participated in the protests, blocking a truck from starting, they would be thrown in prison until they’re 43. They almost might as well just go all the way with it and give the death penalty.

The 25 year sentence part is clearly excessive, which is sadly common in the US justice system. A bunch of fairly minor crimes carry strangely heavy sentences when some surprisingly serious ones carry comparably light sentences.

With that said, sentences need to be severe enough to prevent mobs from obstructing someone else's legal rights.

There are almost invariably at least some people that get pissed off about the construction of almost any infrastructure. People protest roads, rail lines, subways, pipelines, wind farms, solar farms, mines, you name it... if every project was held hostage to the demands of the extreme fringe almost nothing would get built.

People have a right to protest all they want, but when that crosses the line to physically obstructing someone else's rights then it is time for law enforcement to get involved.
 
Jan 18, 2019
417
4,750
Mars Gigafactory 1
I've highlighted new information:

LG Chem has begun to mass produce batteries for Tesla’s Model 3 electric vehicles from its Nanjing plant in China, according to industry sources Sept. 18.

The US-based EV maker will be using LG Chem’ 21700 type batteries using NCM811 that boast a nickel proportion of 80% or more. The LG company previously supplied the NCM811 to electric buses. This is the first time to supply an automobile, the sources said.

Until now, Tesla has been supplied by Japan’s Panasonic, which uses NCA, which is another type of high nickel cathode material.

LG Chem convinced Tesla to switch to NCM811 batteries based on the longer driving distances per charge. It also hinted that it may be able to begin mass producing NCMA batteries, which is even higher in nickel, beginning in 2022 to apply to EVs.

The Model 3, which now receiving pre-orders in China, can run 480km on a single charge for the standard model. The cars sold in Korea are slightly heavier and have a single charge driving distance of 353km.

Upon requests from Tesla, LG Chem is now preparing to expand its battery lines. Already, it has doubled the production volume from its Nanjing plant from last year. Nanjing is where LG said in January this year that it would invest up to 1.2 trillion won to expand the facilities.

According to market research firm SNE Research, LG Chem is expected to churn out up to 1 billion cylindrical battery cells per year from Nanjing. In 2017, the firm was producing 630 million such cells.​

Does 480 km (298 miles) vs. 353 km (219 miles) range mean that LG Chem's new NCM811 based cells have 36% higher energy density?
No. The 480 km range for imported SR+ from Fremont is based on NEDC.
Such mindblowingly poor reporting.
 

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