Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[kengchang]

Seat manufacturerer?! Tesla makes its own seats.

In the US, not in China

 

[Fact Checking]

I disagree. Look at AAPL options pricing and then look at AMZN options pricing. Similar IV and market cap, and yet AMZN options are significantly more expensive. Why? The intrinsic value of 100 shares of the underlying is much higher for the latter. So in this case splits do matter.

But @Bet TSLA is correct that stock splits don't change the value of the underlying options contracts: on splits the OCC will adjust existing options, either by changing the number of shares from 100 to 200, or by adjusting the strike price (or both).

So stock splits (and reverse splits) are mostly invariants to options.

Obviously new options contracts written after a split will be different, with lower option value per contract after a split.

But to investors it makes little difference.

 

[Unpilot]

But @Bet TSLA is correct that stock splits don't change the value of the underlying options contracts: on splits the OCC will adjust existing options, either by changing the number of shares from 100 to 200, or by adjusting the strike price (or both).

So stock splits (and reverse splits) are mostly invariants to options.

Obviously new options contracts written after a split will be different, with lower option value per contract after a split.

But to investors it makes little difference.

We might be talking about apples and cheesecake...but to investors stock splits mean a lot.
If I got in the TSLA game late and stock was at $4,000 ....well I would not get in because it would probably be to rich for me.
But at 100 or say 200 well that opens the door to a lot more investors.

 

[AlMc]

We might be talking about apples and cheesecake...but to investors stock splits mean a lot.
If I got in the TSLA game late and stock was at $4,000 ....well I would not get in because it would probably be to rich for me.
But at 100 or say 200 well that opens the door to a lot more investors.

Psychologically you are correct but now you can buy factional shares: Fractional Shares | Robinhood

 

[Opus BC fan]

Psychologically you are correct but now you can buy factional shares: Fractional Shares | Robinhood

The ability to buy whole shares rather than fractions feels better. I think it would make TSLA more attractive for newer investors who are just beginning to accumulate assets. Besides, if we did a 4 way split at 500 we could look forward to celebrating 420.69 in the future again

 

[EVMeister]

The ability to buy whole shares rather than fractions feels better. I think it would make TSLA more attractive for newer investors who are just beginning to accumulate assets. Besides, if we did a 4 way split at 500 we could look forward to celebrating 420.69 in the future again

Plus not everybody uses or wants to use Robinhood. I don't and my broker doesn't do fractions of shares.

 

[2virgule5]

On that note, can the PowerWall be recharged from the grid?

Yes. If pricing changes during the day you can save money by charging it when rates are low and consuming when they’re high.

 

[gerebgraus]

In the US, not in China

View attachment 494133

So this is not Tesla, but an outside supplier?

 

[kengchang]

Yes. If pricing changes during the day you can save money by charging it when rates are low and consuming when they’re high.

No, you cannot charge Powerwall from the grid if you are claiming 30% credit.

 

[Cherry Wine]

But @Bet TSLA is correct that stock splits don't change the value of the underlying options contracts: on splits the OCC will adjust existing options, either by changing the number of shares from 100 to 200, or by adjusting the strike price (or both).

So stock splits (and reverse splits) are mostly invariants to options.

Obviously new options contracts written after a split will be different, with lower option value per contract after a split.

But to investors it makes little difference.

Agreed. I was merely observing that option premiums for Company A with a stock price of $1000 would be higher than if the company had a stock price of $500 where all other variables are equal - market cap, IV, etc.

 

[lklundin]

The pedant in me would have gotten into trouble by adding
"Pretty awful lie indeed. There ARE NO emerald mines in emerald-free South Africa. Geology is all wrong. Closest mines are in Zambia, and they opened up only after Elon departed from Africa."

Good thing you did not try to tweet that. The contortions required from you to fit your flowerful retort into a Tweet would have hurt you. A lot.

 

[lklundin]

Elon is not fighting the dirty fight this time.

Just simple statement of facts, no name calling, no challenging of any specific person.

I don’t see any downside of doing that, Elon is handling it like a champion recently.

I rated the above Helpful on the assumption that Elon is on TMC.

 

[Lessmog]

Stock is at ATH and barely anyone is posting.

Are you all drunk on egg-nog or something?!

Sorry I'm late, just woke up.
But HOW COULD YOU TELL?

 

[Carl Raymond]

Non issue and irrelevant. You can choose to drive above ground while others can choose to avoid the traffic and drive in the tunnels.

People have such a hard time adjusting to change for a variety of reasons, but the one above is that you automatically assumed you’d have to give up something you think is better.

Change is not all or nothing. It’s definitely not static. And change can always go back to what it was before if that was indeed better.

The idea is to try, to experiment, to move forward, to learn, and to do so without fear. Otherwise we remain immobile, stagnant, ignorant and fearful.

We don’t have to build car tunnels to learn that train tunnels have far greater capacity*. Mathematical modelling will tell us that.

There’s this widespread misconception that you build a tunnel and the spend is complete. They are full of systems which require maintenance. Lighting, drainage, smoke evacuation, radio, internet, video monitoring, emergency escape routes... A city on top of a low capacity (per tunnel) tunnel network is like a household with a hundred mobile phone accounts, forever being drained of funds.

*yes, even factoring higher car velocities and headway that has zero tolerance for car failure.

 

[Christine69420]

We might be talking about apples and cheesecake...but to investors stock splits mean a lot.
If I got in the TSLA game late and stock was at $4,000 ....well I would not get in because it would probably be to rich for me.
But at 100 or say 200 well that opens the door to a lot more investors.

It's frustrating having to save for two months before beeing able to buy one more TSLA when the price is rocketing like it is these days. If the price was 1/10th I could have bought 5 shares last month and 5 this month and not just one now. Would have been a better investment too.

 

[UnknownSoldier]

Stock is at ATH and barely anyone is posting.

Are you all drunk on egg-nog or something?!

Smart people know that stocks go up AND down. It's like no one remembers that half a year ago TSLA had reached a bottom at $180.

 

[lklundin]

Stock splits change nothing about anything. Talking about stock splits as though they mean something makes you sound like a complete noob.

And disagreeing just confirms that. Get a clue.

OK, I will explain my Disagree.

If a AMZN had never split its SP today would be 8 times higher, at 14960$.

And that's a relatively new company. If IBM had never split, its stock price today would be 75 times higher, at 10125$.

Such prices would impact the stock's liquidity, since trades would be in impractical multiples of (about) 10k$.

This would in itself be detrimental to the stock price.

 

[2virgule5]

No, you cannot charge Powerwall from the grid if you are claiming 30% credit.

OP asked for a PowerWall in EU (Italy) so, Yes, nothing to do with tax credit.

 

[TradingInvest]

This paragraph got me thinking: an underground train system (call it a subway if you must) is difficult to execute mainly because it involves human transport in a high-risk environment. It requires extremely reliable safety systems with multiple levels of redundancy, and all these things must be audited and approved by many experts in various commissions. So, while putting something in place that works is easy, making sure that things can't go catastrophically bad is much, much more difficult, costly and time-consuming.

And this brought me to a parallel to space exploration. Look at how much more difficult it is to have the Crew Dragon capsule certified to transport astronauts to the ISS than it was to have a similar version of that capsule deliver stuff to the ISS, in terms of safety.

So wouldn't it actually make a lot more sense to use initial tunnels dug under major cities to simply route goods deliveries via autonomous transport containers or pods through these? It would make an ideal safety testing platform (nothing close to the value of human life is at risk) and it would contribute to decongesting surface streets. If anything, privately-owned cars should be the last transport category allowed to use such tunnels as they are the most risk-laden (difficult to confirm perfect technical alignment of individual autonomous systems to a pre-established set of standards, as well as the condition of each vehicle) and least effective as a means of transport. You'd want city authority run (or, I dunno, Tesla-run) communal-use pods as the next step after freight, and then individual cars last.

Just Sunday thoughts...

I like Boring's approach.

• Show the concept (done)
• Build a prototype tunnel to show it's doable, learn the lessons (done)
• Develop a better digging system (done, and continue to improve)
• Build a short distance commercial tunnel that can bring in revenue, understand the economics (almost done)

• Build more short distance projects
• Build longer distance tunnels with multi channels in each direction with dedicated channels for emergency.
• Build low pressure tunnels for faster speed (long term project).

Tunnel is not something new, it has been used for train, subway, water, cars, for more than a hundred yeas. The risk is not as high as people think. Smaller diameter tunnels tend to be much stronger than larger tunnels.

 

[gerebgraus]

It may be Tesla, I found a reference that mentions the following:

"the EIA report of the Tesla Lingang plant states that in addition to the construction of the power system workshop and the motor workshop, it will also complete the construction of the seat workshop in March 2020."
From 【NE要闻观察】特斯拉Model 3来了，电池包、电机、座椅都要自产 近日，特斯拉国产Model 3出现在第326批《道路机动车辆生产企业及产品公告》新产品公示中。信息显示，其电池采用的是特... - 雪球

So, my guess is that those seats are locally produced at a temporary facility.

Tesla is obviously pushing to maximize Chinese content in the Shanghai produced models. Apparently the windows are also made in China. (found that info here 国产特斯拉Model3中使用的零配件将会越来越多的采用本土化生产，JRs怎么看 - 车友交流 - 虎扑社区 )

My vague recollection is that Fuyao has set up a plant in Shanghai specifically to supply Tesla with glasses.