Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[JRP3]

TSLA talk on CNBC coming up, teased with "40% range loss in cold weather" Hopefully the "Tesla founder" who will be on will crush this.
It's Martin!

 

[KarenRei]

CNBC: "Shares of Tesla are down today after AAA confirmed that EVs lose range in cold weather" Um, no, CNBC, that is not why shares of Tesla are down today...

Also: It's Martin Eberhard. :Þ But thankfully he didn't take any digs at Musk. Just generally talking up the potential of EVs. Good on him.

 

[Matias]

It was mentioned on CNBC about an hour ago.

ED: This might be what was being talked about:

Subscribe to read | Financial Times



So actually it looks like it's just the opposite: the US is preparing to rule on increasing car tariffs from the EU, and their ruling could trigger retaliatory tariffs on cars. But the EU is dangling as a carrot the removal of their 10% tariff on cars.

Whichever way this goes, this is going to be major news for Tesla next week. Wish I knew what day they were planning to rule....

Thanks.

Best case is that E.U. removes 10% tax and U.S. removes chicken tax. But that won’t happen overnight.

I find it hard to believe that U.S. would increase tariffs to E.U. as it would with 100% certainty cause retaliation from E.U.

 

[EVNow]

Yes, two different things, which is why, to avoid any chance of confusion, economists reserve the word increase or shift for the former and use the word expansion for the latter. (Ditto decrease v contraction).

No, not a teacher. High school economics, and son of an economics teacher.

View attachment 375229

Anyway we can discuss this later, after market close (I'm basically talking post-grad economics, though its been a while).

 

[KarenRei]

Thanks.

Best case is that E.U. removes 10% tax and U.S. removes chicken tax. But that won’t happen overnight.

I find it hard to believe that U.S. would increase tariffs to E.U. as it would with 100% certainty cause retaliation from E.U.

You find that hard to believe? Really? With everything they've done so far?

 

[jhm]

Now here's a new angle; columnist suggests Tesla buy BMW:

MarketWatch - 93 minutes ago: Amazon should buy Netflix — and nine other mergers we’d love to see

That's fun, but how to divest ICE is one problem Musk does not need to solve.

 

[Matias]

You find that hard to believe? Really? With everything they've done so far?

I guess I want to believe, that people don’t want to shoot themselves on the foot

 

[KarenRei]

TSLA paring its losses faster than NASDAQ. Dare I dream that we might at least close higher than we opened (despite how much lower that was than yesterday's close)?

 

[KarenRei]

I guess I want to believe, that people don’t want to shoot themselves on the foot

I recommend people take the risk of this turning out badly seriously.

Really wish I knew exactly when next week this ruling is expected to happen.

 

[Buckminster]

Best case is that E.U. removes 10% tax and U.S. removes chicken tax. But that won’t happen overnight.

Heh - we're playing chicken with the EU at the moment. Find your own entertainment....

 

[UncaNed]

Fred Christenhusz‏ @FredChristenhus
We got it!!! The first Tesla Model 3 from Europe!!! @elonmusk Tesla team, thanks you did a great job!! So proud that we got the first Tesla 3 from Europe

Fred Christenhusz on Twitter

I like how he matches the Tesla.

 

[homer214]

Glovis Cosmos drifting off of Portugal:

GLOVIS COSMOS Current position (Vehicles Carrier, IMO 9707027) - VesselFinder

Still going to Zeebrugge; probably traffic or weather delays.

Takes awhile to dump those unsold M3s in the ocean.

 

[KarenRei]

Found this in an old article, re: the upcoming commerce report (still looking for a more precise date for the report to come out):

"After being delivered the final Commerce report, Trump will have up to 90 days to decide on what action, if any, is taken; this brings the approximate deadline for enacting tariffs based on the Commerce probe to April. For now, the trade will continue as status quo."

Well, that's a little better. E.g. good news could come soon, but bad news would be pushed off by 90 days - during which A) Tesla could flood Europe with as many cars as it could manage, and giving Tesla more time to get its prices down; and B) that 90 days would provide significant incentive for both sides to strike a deal.

 

[Hock1]

i don't think she's saying the Government should have a monetary stake in Tesla. I think she's saying the public deserves to see a return on its investment in the form of transitioning to greener, safer, more efficient vehicles. I'm not sure why she thinks we're not seeing that return yet -- anyone who's purchased a Tesla is certainly reaping those benefits. Perhaps she feels Teslas are still cars primarily attainable only by the relatively wealthy.

Most likely, she probably doesn't follow Tesla's delivery numbers as closely as we do, and isn't aware of just how successful the Model 3 has been at gradually moving down the market and capturing more and more share of increasingly lower priced market segments.

Gradually?? After essentially 2 and 1/2 quarters of production, M3 is the #1 selling luxury car in the U.S. for 2018. Maybe she'd get straightened out, if she only knew this well-guarded secret.

 

[Pezpunk]

Gradually?? After essentially 2 and 1/2 quarters of production, M3 is the #1 selling luxury car in the U.S. for 2018. Maybe she'd get straightened out, if she only knew this well-guarded secret.

i think the qualifying word "luxury" there would be a sticking point for her. that's why i said gradually. getting the true $35k M3 as a feasible margin-positive endeavor is (absolutely understandably) taking some time to achieve.

 

[mongo]

CNBC: "Shares of Tesla are down today after AAA confirmed that EVs lose range in cold weather" Um, no, CNBC, that is not why shares of Tesla are down today...

Also: It's Martin Eberhard. :Þ But thankfully he didn't take any digs at Musk. Just generally talking up the potential of EVs. Good on him.

Just like with correlation, chronology does not imply causality.

 

[humbaba]

You find that hard to believe? Really? With everything they've done so far?

I really need the "sad but true" option

 

[Hock1]

i think the qualifying word "luxury" there would be a sticking point for her. that's why i said gradually. getting the true $35k M3 as a feasible margin-positive endeavor is (absolutely understandably) taking some time to achieve.

Yes, I get it. You're right about the sticking point. Any corporation making money for its shareholders is going to be a problem .My last sentence was TIC.

 

[AudubonB]

MODERATOR WARNING:

There is scant - though not zero - reason for discussing in this thread a US politician's environmentally-centered sociopolitical platform.
As it is nonzero, then so long as comments are PRODUCTIVE, discussion will be permitted to continue.

There is zero room here for caustic, sarcastic, nonproductive comments - even though they usually redound to the poster's detriment in their revealing thereby a profound lack of knowledge of even the most fundamental sociopolitical basics. Several posts removed to Snippiness. Further disruptions will elicit more drastic actions.

Summarizing: Cut it out.

 

[Intl Professor]

She's just a socialist idiot that is hot.
All she needs to do is look at how well Venezuela is doing to know that her philosophy fails....every time it's tried.

There are many routes to socialism and some routes to capitalism fail spectacularly. One example of the latter is Russian capitalism in 1917 and now once again. Of the former, one could argue Lenin's revolution was spectacularly successful and then well under repair in the direction of a mixed economy under NEP much the same as China, Vietnam, and Laos today. Even under Stalin, though he had an opportunity to head off Hitler's rise to power, and though victory in Europe was massively aided by US economic aid to the USSR, Hitler was largely defeated at Stalingrad and onward well before Operation Overlord was finally implemented.

Takeway: Sweeping arguments about complicated historical events are often wrong. So much so decades ago Harvard initiated courses in the uses and abuses of history. Take for example the decision to install the Shah in Iran by deposing the democratically elected secular regime in 1953 ostensibly because Mossadegh wanted to nationalize the oil industry. Then the Shah nationalized it! (So important to keep oil out of the hands of the people.)

In our case in the 1970s oil crisis one of the group projects in my class examined the possibility of nationalizing oil here and rejected it, not because it would be socialist but because we would have to nationalize our government first. AOC, E Warren, and others are attempting that now. They will make mistakes and they will be frustrated by the Senate, but by 2020 who knows what the terrain will be? By protecting Trump and implementing their dream policies what the Republicans have done is ensure the revolt of the masses. Where is Bob Dylan when the chimes are changing again?