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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

Ameliorate

Member
May 22, 2016
462
3,379
Victoria, BC Canada
So I noticed that this week various data sources which were reliably rock-steady previously are proforming poorly, often with 15 sec lag and data dropouts. Yahoo, NASDAQ (Edgar Online). Even the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSE) closed hours early yesterday due to a self-described 'glitch':

Technical glitch halts trading on TSX, other exchanges... | TorontoSun.com

So I have to ask, is this delay the new normal with broker 'front-running' all trades now, or is their something else afoot? Any body tracking their Trade execution times? Seen any notable changes in execution speed? TIA

Cheers!
RBC is tragic this week. 15+ minutes to execute in the AM, 3 minutes midday, current order in has been sitting for 9 minutes so far..... Basically unusable for a trader. I got right ripped off today the big TSLA peak today when my market order executed 3 min later at the local low. Called them they said it was due to the high volume of trading.... (note this is trading options at values subject to "review" before placing the order)
 

Eugene Ash

Supporting Member
Dec 8, 2015
241
1,283
Redmond, WA
Today, for the first time during this crash, I was actually up because my puts rose more than my portfolio fell.

Also I'm buying more puts in anticipation of more media hysteria over the weekend.

Also death to shorty. I haven't sold a single share, you'll pry them from my cold, dead hands Chanos!
Hmm, just got rid of my sole experimental spy 310 put (184%up), because I think we're done panicking. But I don't watch TV, so what do I know.
Nevertheless, was a sound strategy and "not advice" @UnknownSoldier !
 

JBRR

Member
Dec 13, 2015
959
19,234
UK
If a meteor was about to hit earth would we move the discussion to a separate thread?

I've been saying this for a month now, but it bears repeating. Nothing will matter more to the short term price of Tesla than the Coronavirus.
You might as well rename this thread to the Coronavirus investment thread.

If you disagree with me - well, "I'm right, and you're smart and sooner or later you'll see I'm right."

"why listen to this guy you ask?"
Because I was right.

8fa81282d339b3abee1a69b63a7a7ba8.png


My portfolio was 100% TSLA stock, TSLA options up untill 1 month ago (and has been for 5 years.)
I assume few others here managed to salvage their portfolio through this.
 
Last edited:

Eugene Ash

Supporting Member
Dec 8, 2015
241
1,283
Redmond, WA
Great timing. I got in at 630 today. And I just used my paid off Tesla to get auto loan at 1.99% APR and took out savings money to ready to buy more TSLA stocks if it goes down. $80k ready for month of March. Every time there is a DIP, I will buy. I goal is to get 300 shares of TSLA. Currently only have 150 TSLA which I am not going to sell. Well even if I wanted can't really due to capital gains tax reason. (as I already have over $100k+ in other stock gains this year) If sell any more TSLA I will have to pay too much taxes. In anycase, 150 more to go. lol
why would you pay off a 1.99 apr and pay capital gains at the same time?
 

SpaceCash

Intergalactic Planetary, Planetary Intergalactic
Jul 5, 2017
1,580
11,824
Earth
So I noticed that this week various data sources which were reliably rock-steady previously are proforming poorly, often with 15 sec lag and data dropouts. Yahoo, NASDAQ (Edgar Online). Even the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSE) closed hours early yesterday due to a self-described 'glitch':

Technical glitch halts trading on TSX, other exchanges... | TorontoSun.com

So I have to ask, is this delay the new normal with broker 'front-running' all trades now, or is their something else afoot? Any body tracking their Trade execution times? Seen any notable changes in execution speed? TIA

Cheers!
Yup. I Bought 20 shares today at limit 633 which was at least 80 cents above the ask. Took a solid 20 seconds. Should have been instant. It also makes me wonder if there was more going on when etrade made it nearly impossible for me to use my own cash to buy my bike a week or so back
 

willow_hiller

Active Member
Apr 3, 2019
2,949
12,666
Maryland
Would you decline a bonus at work (assuming you work for someone...) because of "too much taxes"?

First of all, it's possible that selling certain amounts would move an individual up in marginal-tax rate. Why sell in 2020 when your income is $100,000 and have your profits taxed at the $100,001st dollar's rate, when you can wait until next year and have it taxed at the $50,001st dollar's rate?

Secondly, not timing the market because of tax absolutely makes sense. Every additional year you don't sell is another opportunity for those pre-tax profits to continue to grow. It's almost like a traditional IRA (but any withdrawal has a penalty).

Simple example:

Assume you own 100 shares with an average cost of 350, your tax rate is 30%, and the SP is currently 650. You sell for a total of $65,000 ($35,000 investment, $30,000 profit), thinking that we're not at the bottom, but then it's clear the market is recovering. Since you earned capital gains, you now owe 30% of your profit, or $9,000, in taxes and only have $56,000 to re-invest. Your 100 shares with an average cost of 350 have now turned into 86 shares with an average cost of 650.

Now we're in 2021, the SP is 1650. If you had held onto your original 100 shares, you could sell them for $165,000 ($35,000 investment, $130,000 profit), pay $39,000 in tax on your profits, and walk away with $126,000. But since you tried to time the market, you sell your 86 shares for $141,900 ($55,900 investment, $86,000 profit), pay $25,800 in taxes ($34,800 total from your first sale), and walk away with $116,100 instead. This effect is compounded for each year you decide not to sell.
 

TheTalkingMule

Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Oct 20, 2012
6,363
21,835
Philadelphia, PA
Tesla already announced at earnings that Model Y is launching in Q1, a late March launch is not really worthy of big headlines considering it is near the end of the window Tesla had already set.
Yeah but it is now HAPPENING. When something amazing is announced it's interesting, when it happens it's news.

This is the delivery of what everyone knows will soon be the best selling EV of all time and likely for the next 5 years, at which point it may very well be the best selling car in the world. Day 1 of that is kinda worthy of a mention.
 

KarenRei

ᴉǝɹuǝɹɐʞ
Jul 18, 2017
9,619
103,828
Iceland
Trying to wrap my head around your non-advice.. ;)

Isn't the biggest risk that your buyback order is triggered on the way down, and that the stock doesn't go up before the expiry date

Yes, that is the primary risk. But expiry is March 2021. If I need to roll in time I will, and that would be an adverse event, but IMHO I have little concern about that.

Loved today's voltility. 5 free +$50 rolls, at the cost (due to the lower SP) of slightly higher leverage (1 additional spreads converted to pure calls; the will convert back to a spread at an SP around $675-$680).
 
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mejojo

Supporting Member
Aug 4, 2014
982
2,424
Santa Paula, CA
First of all, it's possible that selling certain amounts would move an individual up in marginal-tax rate. Why sell in 2020 when your income is $100,000 and have your profits taxed at the $100,001st dollar's rate, when you can wait until next year and have it taxed at the $50,001st dollar's rate?

Secondly, not timing the market because of tax absolutely makes sense. Every additional year you don't sell is another opportunity for those pre-tax profits to continue to grow. It's almost like a traditional IRA (but any withdrawal has a penalty).

Simple example:

Assume you own 100 shares with an average cost of 350, your tax rate is 30%, and the SP is currently 650. You sell for a total of $65,000 ($35,000 investment, $30,000 profit), thinking that we're not at the bottom, but then it's clear the market is recovering. Since you earned capital gains, you now owe 30% of your profit, or $9,000, in taxes and only have $56,000 to re-invest. Your 100 shares with an average cost of 350 have now turned into 86 shares with an average cost of 650.

Now we're in 2021, the SP is 1650. If you had held onto your original 100 shares, you could sell them for $165,000 ($35,000 investment, $130,000 profit), pay $39,000 in tax on your profits, and walk away with $126,000. But since you tried to time the market, you sell your 86 shares for $141,900 ($55,900 investment, $86,000 profit), pay $25,800 in taxes ($34,800 total from your first sale), and walk away with $116,100 instead. This effect is compounded for each year you decide not to sell.

Thanks for the lecture (I hope it was helpful to you to write it out), but that's not at all the point.
 

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