Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[mongo]

If you are unable to view the world from someone else's viewpoint, that's your own failing. I made it as easy as possible. You're free to disbelieve the viewpoint of people who are vegetarians for moral reasons if you want, but it won't make such viewpoints cease to exist. You already saw the analogy strongly seconded right after I made it.

They may have just been referring to your 'eating babies' imagery. One post was about eating things not made of meat yet formulated to taste like meat, and one post was about cannibalism. Not exactly the best fodder for slipping off to dream land.

Not that parent's don't eat placenta anyway...
Placentophagy -- are there reasons to eat the placenta?

Obligatory, Fat B. shout out
Baby get in my belly!

Is the the thought of living in a world where everyone ate human babies the stuff of nightmare fuel to you? Now you know our world. We (people who are vegetarians for moral reasons) live in a nightmare fuel world. Fun, huh? :Þ
You can choose to believe or not that this is the world we find ourselves in, but I assure you, it is.

Yep, its a wolf eat rabbit world. All the carnivores in the wild will go on eating other animals, hunting them down and ripping their limbs off regardless of your dietary choice. Every winter, more deer will starve to death if they are not hunted. You can choose your path, but Mother Nature (entropy) doesn't give a rip about your conscience.

 

[JRP3]

I want my vegan burger to taste as a vegetable... not as meat.

There are plenty of those. Once plant based burgers, steak, bacon, etc., taste just like meat there are no excuses for those who insist they want the taste of meat.

 

[JRP3]

Every winter, more deer will starve to death if they are not hunted. You can choose your path, but Mother Nature (entropy) doesn't give a rip about your conscience.

Sure but factory farming has nothing to do with mother nature.

 

[Fact Checking]

Same. It's weird when meat-eaters learn that I'm vegetarian and cook the most meat-like thing they can find, thinking I'll love it. And then get confused if I don't eat much or any of it (I try to be polite and not offend them).

To meat eaters serving food to someone who is a vegetarian for moral reasons: picture a world where almost everyone but you ate human babies.

Don't you think that comparing meat eaters to baby eaters might be ... a tad offensive to meat eaters? Don't you think that a meat eater friend of yours trying to prepare meat-alike vegetarian food for you maybe does it not to change your mind and to offend you, but because they think both you and them would like it as a good common ground?

Don't you think that it's an entirely rational and morally consistent view to consider both plants and animals as complex non-sentient nano-robots, just like Andrej Karpathy, Director of Tesla AI, thinks they are:

Andrej Karpathy on Twitter

"Nature stuff all around us (plants, animals, etc) are best thought of as basically super advanced alien technology. These are nanotechnology devices magically grown in ambient conditions with complex information processing. Synthetic bio is tinkering with / hijacking this tech."​

Or do you really think that using complex non-sentient nano-robots as a protein source is even remotely comparable to cannibalizing sentient beings of your own species?

I have to say that despite being a vegetarian you managed to butcher that analogy into a bloody mess...

 

[mongo]

Panasonic own the machines that make the cells at machine gun speed. Maxwell have nothing like that. Seems to me we have a three party marriage. Tesla, Maxwell, Panasonic, all need each other.

Tesla has machines that can turn those cell into pack jsut as fast. Plus i think there are equipment supplier to the cell industry that Panasonic leans on. Not that electrode slitting, winding, and packing it that complex a task (I assume Maxwell already has the coating step figured out).

 

[SunCatcher]

We’re supposed to soon be learning more about production plans for the Model Y and Semi-Truck. But I wouldn’t be surprised if consumer demand and competitors' plans force an earlier introduction of a Tesla Pickup Truck. From the perspective of a shareholder, emphasis on higher margin vehicles makes sense for now.

THIS! I've been thinking about this a lot lately myself. Besides the possibility of the Model Y cutting into Model 3 demand and sales, a Tesla Pickup Truck would reach a vastly different segment of the automobile marketplace, and would have the effect of even more eyeballs glued to every Tesla seen on the road than can possibly be imagined. Model Y later. Tesla Pickup Truck NOW!
Come on Elon, BRING IT!!!

 

[Carl Raymond]

To me, the main reasons why GF4 will be in Germany. 1) Access to very high quality talent pool of engineers. 2) Grohmann. Tesla is really a sum of its parts and one of its biggest parts lately has been Grohmann's ability to help improve battery manufacturing. Along with Perbix. lets not forget them, but they are US based.

There are lots of other benefits but I think those 2 are what will win the day for GF4. I would expect to hear very soon as it will take much longer to get through all the bureaucracy.

Because Tesla is so focused on automation and the machine that builds the machine, Engineers are more important than cheap labor or selling more cars in a particular country because you have a factory there. A lot of things will be invented in GF4 like they are in GF1. Its also very centralized and the biggest economy in Europe by far.

I like your thinking because it seems less brutal. Displaced workers from ICEV factories may only have to walk across the road for new employment. From a mission viewpoint, Germany gets the thumbs up. It greases the wheels.

 

[Cobbler]

Hmmm... reading about vegans, hunting,...
Remember the days when $TSLA was all about sizzle and no steak?

 

[mongo]

Sure but factory farming has nothing to do with mother nature.

Sure, but no one said anything about factory farming (that I noticed).

 

[Rarity]

In that Needham Conference presentation by Maxwell (worth a listen), the CFO mentioned that to protect its IP, Maxwell was supplying electrodes to their Chinese cell partners from US factories. It may be that Tesla continues to do this for GF3 cell production.

I don't know how much of the "secret sauce" of cell manufacture that the electrode represents and how that impacts the value contribution of Tesla v. Panasonic.

 

[KarenRei]

Yep, its a wolf eat rabbit world. All the carnivores in the wild will go on eating other animals, hunting them down and ripping their limbs off regardless of your dietary choice. Every winter, more deer will starve to death if they are not hunted. You can choose your path, but Mother Nature (entropy) doesn't give a rip about your conscience.

Just because there exists evil in the world that humans didn't create is an excuse to create more evil? Is that really the argument you want to go with - in any argument? "Evil exists, so let's do more evil"? We have no obligation whatsoever to raise and slaughter animals. It's a choice. One that simultaneously hurts the environment, but that's a whole separate can of worms.

Seriously, "other animals do it, so so should we"? Animals rape. Animals kill for fun. Animals kill the babies of their own species to mate with their mothers. On and on. We don't have to do something just because some species in nature do it. It's ridiculous that I have to point this out.

 

[CorneliusXX]

Don't you think that comparing meat eaters to baby eaters might be ... a tad offensive to meat eaters?

Especially when Iceland is one of the few places you can get a nice whale steak.

 

[mongo]

In that Needham Conference presentation by Maxwell (worth a listen), the CFO mentioned that to protect its IP, Maxwell was supplying electrodes to their Chinese cell partners from US factories. It may be that Tesla continues to do this for GF3 cell production.

I don't know how much of the "secret sauce" of cell manufacture that the electrode represents and how that impacts the value contribution of Tesla v. Panasonic.

Formulation is critical as is uniformity of application. The former is where Tesla' research is focused. The latter is a solved problem that Panasonic is good at with wet electrode application, but Maxwell's tech works in a different way.

 

[EVNow]

Let's consider the possibility of the short range Model 3 being kept on hold, perhaps permanently. Meanwhile more expensive versions can still be sold to match the current production capabilities. Removing the timetable for the short range version may inspire some reservation holders to opt for what is currently available. Eventually production costs could lower to the point that even a stripped down long range version can be sold for $35,000.

I think EM wants to make that $35k Model 3 - at least to fulfil his promise. One idea would be to make it in limited quantities and have some compelling upgrades for $2k or so.

Also, they now need to find enough buyers for 6k Model 3s per week. That might force them to make $35k cars - we don't know. Ofcourse, once they have the Y - they can shift production from 3 to Y.

 

[oneday]

Sure, but no one said anything about factory farming (that I noticed).

I just want to say, I’m really excited about plant a seed day in 2019.

 

[mongo]

Just because there exists evil in the world that humans didn't create is an excuse to create more evil? Is that really the argument you want to go with - in any argument? "Evil exists, so let's do more evil"? We have no obligation whatsoever to raise and slaughter animals. It's a choice. One that simultaneously hurts the environment, but that's a whole separate can of worms.

Not talking evil, talking predator and prey. You said it is a nightmare world. And it is, regardless of whether humans are vegetarians.

Our local farming family that we source meat from gives animals lives much better than anything they would have in the wild.

 

[Nocturnal]

THIS! I've been thinking about this a lot lately myself. Besides the possibility of the Model Y cutting into Model 3 demand and sales, a Tesla Pickup Truck would reach a vastly different segment of the automobile marketplace, and would have the effect of even more eyeballs glued to every Tesla seen on the road than can possibly be imagined. Model Y later. Tesla Pickup Truck NOW!
Come on Elon, BRING IT!!!

Yeah but small/medium SUVS are the biggest market by far and the Y is basically a model 3 so they should be able to pump them out like crazy.

IMO, electric pickups are going to be at the Model S level for quite sometime. They can go after range rover or the country club truck crowd but regular old F150s aren't going to have competition until we see the Model 3 equivalent of a pickup.

 

[KarenRei]

Don't you think that comparing meat eaters to baby eaters might be ... a tad offensive to meat eaters?

Place yourself into the analogy I presented, then understand what your statement looks like to me - "You make a statement against eating babies, and the people around you act like you're the horrible person for saying such a thing."

I've given you a perfectly effective way to see the world through the eyes of people who are vegetarians for moral reasons. It's your choice if you choose not to make use of it, but deliberately refusing to look through another person's eyes means you're guaranteed to never understand them.

Is it uncomfortable for you to realize that eating meat next to a person who's a vegetarian for moral reasons is the same experience for them that sitting next to a person eating a baby would be for you? I'm sorry, but that's the reality. Does that reality make you uncomfortable? Then don't do it.

Or do you really think that using complex non-sentient nano-robots as a protein source is even remotely comparable to cannibalizing sentient beings of your own species?

Sentient is the key word, now isn't it? That's the word that bothers us when it comes to killing. Go on, define sentient. That's something philosophers have been trying to do for ages.

One of the classic definitions of sentience is metacognition. The ability to think about one's own thoughts. If you can think about what you're thinking, pondering yourself, then that's sentience, right? That's what's supposed to set us apart from "the animals" (as if we're not "an animal", but that's a whole different can of worms).

Guess what? Metacognition is not unique to humans. Even rats do it:

Metacognition in the rat

 

[KarenRei]

Our local farming family that we source meat from gives animals lives much better than anything they would have in the wild.

Good to that raising a species to slaughter it is great so long as you give them "much better lives than anything they would have in the wild."
Good to know that you'd have no objection with raising humans for slaughter so long as you gave them a good childhood.

 

[KarenRei]

By the way, remember when I wrote about why I'm generally in the group of vegetarians who keeps their mouth shut, to avoid how people react? This is why.