Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Foghat]

China economy: Slowdown in car sales deepens - CNN

So instead of noting that China EV sales nearly triple digit growth, they warn readers that ICE makers will struggle due to slow China sales.

Can we all see how this hurts our American economy?

The covering for last century’s automakers just hurts the innovation toward better modes of transport that they can’t provide citizens. What happened to the “free market?” Or is this just a hoax in order to monopolize and cartelize the market away from true innovative independent upstarts and entrepreneurs?

We have to make a decision, are we going to close our eyes and defend non innovation as a national policy and propaganda flood our citizens into thinking propping up dying businesses is “winning?” Or, are we going to allow innovative thought and true diverse and disperse entrepreneurship sprout for from our citizenry to meet the demands of a sustainable and prosperous future?

Win through having better ideas, not by defending tired ones.

Lead, follow, or get the F out of the way.

Tesla shows us this everyday.

 

[azaz]

By the way, remember when I wrote about why I'm generally in the group of vegetarians who keeps their mouth shut, to avoid how people react? This is why.

because what you're saying is insane?

 

[humbaba]

Not talking evil, talking predator and prey. You said it is a nightmare world. And it is, regardless of whether humans are vegetarians.

Our local farming family that we source meat from gives animals lives much better than anything they would have in the wild.

More relevant is, "much better than anything they would have in a factory farm." But, morals wise, that's the approach I take to having pets. I give them a good home (food, shelter, affection) and in return they have their freedom constrained and are neutered (there's more than enough cats and dogs, no need to be adding to the problem).

But more important I think is to realize that diet (especially vegetarian vs meat-eater) is just as divisive as politics or religion. Best avoided without reason.

Why are we arguing this?

 

[lklundin]

Just a head's up of some Tesla related news that have not (yet) hit the general media:

Friday or possibly before in rural USA a Tesla transport carrying one new blue Model S, one new black Model X, one blue Model 3 and one white Model S drove off the road and came to a stop on the soft shoulder.

Following the accident one standing male (possibly the driver) and one other person surveyed the damage, which was extensive to the white Model S and less so to the tractor and trailer.

 

[humbaba]

Just a head's up of some Tesla related news that have not yet hit the general media:

Friday or possibly before in rural USA a Tesla transport carrying one new blue Model S, one new black Model X, one blue Model 3 and one white Model S drove off the road and came to a stop on the soft shoulder.

Following the accident one standing male (possibly the driver) surveyed the damage, which was extensive to the white Model S and less so to the tractor and trailer.

any source?

 

[UncaNed]

Sure but factory farming has nothing to do with mother nature.

Seems to me these discussions have even less to do with this TSLA INVESTING round table.

Just sayin'.

 

[Carl Raymond]

I think EM wants to make that $35k Model 3 - at least to fulfil his promise. One idea would be to make it in limited quantities and have some compelling upgrades for $2k or so.

Also, they now need to find enough buyers for 6k Model 3s per week. That might force them to make $35k cars - we don't know. Ofcourse, once they have the Y - they can shift production from 3 to Y.

If they make it only in black, that alone limits the market. Too hot in places where the sun is directly above.

 

[lklundin]

Place yourself into the analogy I presented, then understand what your statement looks like to me - "You make a statement against eating babies, and the people around you act like you're the horrible person for saying such a thing."

I've given you a perfectly effective way to see the world through the eyes of people who are vegetarians for moral reasons. It's your choice if you choose not to make use of it, but deliberately refusing to look through another person's eyes means you're guaranteed to never understand them.

Is it uncomfortable for you to realize that eating meat next to a person who's a vegetarian for moral reasons is the same experience for them that sitting next to a person eating a baby would be for you? I'm sorry, but that's the reality. Does that reality make you uncomfortable? Then don't do it.



Sentient is the key word, now isn't it? That's the word that bothers us when it comes to killing. Go on, define sentient. That's something philosophers have been trying to do for ages.

One of the classic definitions of sentience is metacognition. The ability to think about one's own thoughts. If you can think about what you're thinking, pondering yourself, then that's sentience, right? That's what's supposed to set us apart from "the animals" (as if we're not "an animal", but that's a whole different can of worms).

Guess what? Metacognition is not unique to humans. Even rats do it:

Metacognition in the rat

Well, then I am happy to report that I don't eat rats...

(On a more serious note, I am mostly pescetarian).

 

[lklundin]

any source?

Fair question. It's just that TMC is such a nice and family friendly place.

But anyone who like me has nothing better to do can dig it up pretty easily. Just don't linger.

 

[ClimateOptimst]

They may have just been referring to your 'eating babies' imagery. One post was about eating things not made of meat yet formulated to taste like meat, and one post was about cannibalism. Not exactly the best fodder for slipping off to dream land.

Not that parent's don't eat placenta anyway...
Placentophagy -- are there reasons to eat the placenta?

Obligatory, Fat B. shout out
Baby get in my belly!



Yep, its a wolf eat rabbit world. All the carnivores in the wild will go on eating other animals, hunting them down and ripping their limbs off regardless of your dietary choice. Every winter, more deer will starve to death if they are not hunted. You can choose your path, but Mother Nature (entropy) doesn't give a rip about your conscience.

Agree as both a meat eater & hunter of said meats. But, to steer this discussion back to something perhaps more closely allied with this thread and Tesla. The other big prong of combating climate change will be cost-effectively absorbing CO2 & other greenhouse gases from the atmosphere as we're getting our emission rates under control this century. TSLA & other green tech companies are fundamentally important to one prong. Developing substitutes for meat that appeal to meat eaters so human societies are willing to dramatically reduce global domestic livestock herds (because cows, pigs, & humans account for something like 95% of terrestrial mammalian biomass) and their attendant inefficient, CO2 emitting landuses will be key to winning the climate battle. Hydroponics & startups like Plenty.ag (led by at least one former Tesla person) will be key to finding market based solutions for the second prong. Does anyone know if any of these ventures are getting close to being able to scale, investable, and making products that meat eaters and non-meat eaters alike will like?

 

[humbaba]

Fair question. It's just that TMC is such a nice and family friendly place.

But anyone who like me has nothing better to do can dig it up pretty easily. Just don't linger.

ah, I was just curious. Something on social media? I'm not good with that and a simple search didn't find anything current. And if you put "Tesla" in a search you get... well, lots of old hits.

 

[Cherry Wine]

Just a head's up of some Tesla related news that have not (yet) hit the general media:

Friday or possibly before in rural USA a Tesla transport carrying one new blue Model S, one new black Model X, one blue Model 3 and one white Model S drove off the road and came to a stop on the soft shoulder.

Following the accident one standing male (possibly the driver) and one other person surveyed the damage, which was extensive to the white Model S and less so to the tractor and trailer.

And? I don’t get it.

 

[AlexS]

Seems to me these discussions have even less to do with this TSLA INVESTING round table.

Just sayin'.

It is related. Karen is selling tomorrow her total stake for moral reasons.- Elon Musk's favorite food is barbecue.

source: 7 things we just learned about Elon Musk

PS: its a joke, not an investment advice.

 

[abasile]

I am a meat eater, though I avoid red meat for health and environmental reasons. Still, the analogy made by @KarenRei resonated with me. We human beings have the unfortunate tendency of allowing ourselves to become numb to evil rather than changing our ways.

Personally, I am "pro life", in a very broad sense. Valuing human life at all stages includes addressing environmental issues, especially climate change, that have the potential to seriously threaten human life. Being "pro life" should also require one to respect animal life, so even if we do choose to eat meat, we should desire humane treatment of farm-bred animals.

This worldview is what leads me to have an oversized TSLA position (and to avoid alcohol and tobacco companies, fossil fuel companies, etc.) No, it's not okay for us to continue smoking, burning oil, etc., etc., when we know what the consequences are, and when we're in the position to choose alternatives. Sure, I may buy and sell portions of my TSLA and/or other "conscientious investments" at times, but the guiding worldview remains the same.

Now, others here will have worldviews that don't necessarily align with everything I've shared about myself. If, however, each person can seek to be more sensitive to their moral compass, and act and invest accordingly, then the world will be a better place. One thing I truly appreciate about this particular community of investors is that it seems that many people here are seeking to do just that.

Don't you think that comparing meat eaters to baby eaters might be ... a tad offensive to meat eaters? Don't you think that a meat eater friend of yours trying to prepare meat-alike vegetarian food for you maybe does it not to change your mind and to offend you, but because they think both you and them would like it as a good common ground?

Don't you think that it's an entirely rational view to consider both plants and animals complex non-sentient nano-robots, just like Andrej Karpathy, Director of Tesla AI, thinks they are:

Andrej Karpathy on Twitter

"Nature stuff all around us (plants, animals, etc) are best thought of as basically super advanced alien technology. These are nanotechnology devices magically grown in ambient conditions with complex information processing. Synthetic bio is tinkering with / hijacking this tech."​

Or do you really think that using complex non-sentient nano-robots as a protein source is even remotely comparable to cannibalizing sentient beings of your own species?

I have to say that despite being a vegetarian you managed to butcher that analogy into a bloody mess...

 

[Cherry Wine]

https://app.handelsblatt.com/today/politics/collision-course-us-threat-to-germanys-car-sector-bears-greater-economic-risk/24007884.html?ticket=ST-1152447-3aAHbSJ2zpaKdIzTPxMi-ap1

 

[Carl Raymond]

Place yourself into the analogy I presented, then understand what your statement looks like to me - "You make a statement against eating babies, and the people around you act like you're the horrible person for saying such a thing."

I've given you a perfectly effective way to see the world through the eyes of people who are vegetarians for moral reasons. It's your choice if you choose not to make use of it, but deliberately refusing to look through another person's eyes means you're guaranteed to never understand them.

Is it uncomfortable for you to realize that eating meat next to a person who's a vegetarian for moral reasons is the same experience for them that sitting next to a person eating a baby would be for you? I'm sorry, but that's the reality. Does that reality make you uncomfortable? Then don't do it.



Sentient is the key word, now isn't it? That's the word that bothers us when it comes to killing. Go on, define sentient. That's something philosophers have been trying to do for ages.

One of the classic definitions of sentience is metacognition. The ability to think about one's own thoughts. If you can think about what you're thinking, pondering yourself, then that's sentience, right? That's what's supposed to set us apart from "the animals" (as if we're not "an animal", but that's a whole different can of worms).

Guess what? Metacognition is not unique to humans. Even rats do it:

Metacognition in the rat

I don’t see any proof of metacognition there. The subconscious is very powerful and is trained by repetition. A basketballer does not think about where on the backboard to lay the ball, indeed, that’s a sure way to miss the shot.

I could be wrong. It was a cursory read of the study.

 

[Johann Koeber]

Deliveries in Germany are starting, but there are still growing pains.
I got to see my new M3P:

Could not drive it home yet, because the invoice was missing. I paid the amount anyway, hoping Tesla will sort it out. Tonight I finally got the invoice. I am a professional accountant, and I hate to pay anything without a proper invoice. OTOH Tesla has a lot of money for the next gen Roadster from me - without much documentation.

Now I am waiting for the registration papers. Date for car pick up is now Wednesday 14.00 in Nuremberg.

The lot was full of M3 waiting for delivery. The store was not very full with people. My impression, it will take a few more days and then the cars will really start moving.

 

[Reciprocity]

If you feel you can take a whole lot of anti Tesla misinformation this idiot can supply it, in a super annoying manner. 1.8 million subscribers

At some point, people like this no longer matter. When model 3s are everywhere and you know someone with one and can ask them questions. all this crap slinging carries way less weight. Word of mouth is so effective because you generally know if the messenger would lead you astray. Even frienmies will things that they agree on and can talk about even if they are rivals. The war was kind of won with the model 3s successful ramp. There is a lot of hard work to be done, but they know the formula works, they just have to scale it up to millions with Y. Pickups will be a bit tougher, but only because the current incumbents are so ingrained in the US. My brother would never drive anything other than a Chevy pickup. These guys will be tough to win over. Tesla has to make the truck better in every way, it cant even be close. It will be very interesting to see how they accomplish that, because I am sure they know what it will take. I am not talking about the cyber punk Pickup but the mainstream variation. Semi credibility should help a lot. If Tesla can earn some accolades from the semi and then talk about how the same tech, motors and capabilities have been scaled down and packaged for the hard working American blue colored truck owner. It will be very interesting to see what Franz comes up with. I cant even imagine.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

While I would prefer there to not be a tariff war with Europe, especially at the same time as China, the idea of a tariff war with Europe doesn't worry me that much for a couple of reasons.

- Gas is sooooo expensive over there that even if Tesla had to raise the price of the Model 3 to account for retaliatory tariffs, I don't think it would affect demand that much

- The pent up demand for Model 3. If a trade war were to happen, the best time it could happen is during the initial 6 months of Model 3 launch because there would be demand and excitement that would limit the issue of lack of demand due to higher prices

- Right now a US company is already at a disadvantage when trying to sell their cars in Europe(10% tax) vs a European company selling their cars here (2.5% tax). The playing field should be even and fair. If Trump could actually pressure Europe into a fair 2.5% tax(even a 5% tax would be better) by threatening tariffs, Tesla would immediately benefit.

A trade war would hurt Europe much worse than the US when it comes to car companies. I think EU has lot of incentive to see this not happen and would make concessions. The only wild card is of course Trump.......even when his bullying tactic starts to work, he is incapable of taking the concessions and making a deal.

 

[JRP3]

Seems to me these discussions have even less to do with this TSLA INVESTING round table.

Just sayin'.

True, we do have a thread for the topic if further discussion is desired: Veganism/Leather etc. out of Market Action