Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Mo City
Active Member
There's always community college....you know 'everyone in the community gets to go'I wish. You know what comes after a bunch of young kids?
...a bunch of kids going to college.
Maybe I'll "get lucky" and it'll all be cheap and online by then!
speculation:
- Tesla makes more money on the Y than on the 3. By reducing the price of the Y, they can get more people for whom the price of the Y is a bit too much and who would have bought a 3 to buy it anyway.
- It makes the Ford Mustang less attractive despite the tax credit this car enjoys.
They did. They actually lowered the price of the Model 3 first a little while ago.
My entire TSLA holdings are in my Roth IRA. I didn't qualify for a regular Roth, but with Roth conversion rule from a regular IRA, I began investing (at $119) in late 2013 and added a similar dollar amount in 2016 (at $180) to my holdings. After the big run up, I have a 10 bagger for my entire investment. Here are the advantages and disadvantages that I found in doing the investment through a Roth.
Disadvantage: The biggest and only disadvantage for me (I was 68 in 2013) was that I needed to pay the taxes on the conversion from non Roth to Roth. Fortunately, I had the cash outside the IRA to do it. I could have alternatively invested the tax money and the non-Roth IRA in TSLA. I have calculated that if I were to cash out today, I would net less money after taxes (Federal and State Income Tax on the IRA and Federal and State Capital Gains on the regular investment) than I would get from the Roth IRA. This depends on your specific tax situation. If you don't have the extra cash outside your IRA to pay the taxes, I don't think it is worth it cash out part of your IRA to pay the taxes.
Advantage: Of course, the biggest advantage of a Roth is that you don't have to pay any taxes on any withdrawals made if you are at least 59.5 y.o. and have had the Roth for 5 years. You can (with any self directed IRA) trade in and out as much or little as you want without having to worry about taxes as long as the funds stay in your IRA. If you withdraw money from your Roth your cannot later put it back. With a regular IRA, if you withdraw funds, they are taxed at regular income tax rates.
Another big advantage is that a Roth IRA has no RMD (required minimum distribution) which begins now at age 72 for most of you youngsters who reach 70.5 after the end of 2019. Because of COIVD-19, RMD's are suspended for 2020. However, if you don't need your RMD to live on, or not all of it, then having a Roth allows it to grow more (tax free) without having any withdrawals.
Finally, if you have assets in your Roth when you or your spouse die (longest lived spouse if you make each other first beneficiary), then it will pass to beneficiaries and can grow ten more years without any tax consequence. After that the Roth ends and gains from that point on are subject to capital gains tax. As I mentioned in a previous post, if at least one of us lives 15 years, and then the Roth continues for another 10 years, that means 25 more years of growth tax free according to current rules.
The usual disclaimer on not giving investment advice...
Disadvantage: The biggest and only disadvantage for me (I was 68 in 2013) was that I needed to pay the taxes on the conversion from non Roth to Roth. Fortunately, I had the cash outside the IRA to do it. I could have alternatively invested the tax money and the non-Roth IRA in TSLA. I have calculated that if I were to cash out today, I would net less money after taxes (Federal and State Income Tax on the IRA and Federal and State Capital Gains on the regular investment) than I would get from the Roth IRA. This depends on your specific tax situation. If you don't have the extra cash outside your IRA to pay the taxes, I don't think it is worth it cash out part of your IRA to pay the taxes.
Advantage: Of course, the biggest advantage of a Roth is that you don't have to pay any taxes on any withdrawals made if you are at least 59.5 y.o. and have had the Roth for 5 years. You can (with any self directed IRA) trade in and out as much or little as you want without having to worry about taxes as long as the funds stay in your IRA. If you withdraw money from your Roth your cannot later put it back. With a regular IRA, if you withdraw funds, they are taxed at regular income tax rates.
Another big advantage is that a Roth IRA has no RMD (required minimum distribution) which begins now at age 72 for most of you youngsters who reach 70.5 after the end of 2019. Because of COIVD-19, RMD's are suspended for 2020. However, if you don't need your RMD to live on, or not all of it, then having a Roth allows it to grow more (tax free) without having any withdrawals.
Finally, if you have assets in your Roth when you or your spouse die (longest lived spouse if you make each other first beneficiary), then it will pass to beneficiaries and can grow ten more years without any tax consequence. After that the Roth ends and gains from that point on are subject to capital gains tax. As I mentioned in a previous post, if at least one of us lives 15 years, and then the Roth continues for another 10 years, that means 25 more years of growth tax free according to current rules.
The usual disclaimer on not giving investment advice...
brantse
Supporting Member
I'm also no tax consultan , but I'd caution against doing a complete Roth conversion without first understanding all of the consequences. For one, you'll owe tax on the full amount converted during that year, rather than over a likely much longer period, when withdrawing. Also, Roth's provide nearly no benefit of you would like to make any withdrawals before 59.5.
Personally I have both, and eventually plan to use rule 72t to draw from my traditional IRA until I turn 59.5, where I'll begin drawing from the Roth
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Worth a read for those who skipped over it! I liked this part:
He's definitely not short-sighted! And it sounds like he is maintaining a consistent style, even at 80 years old! I attribute his success to taking a longer-term view than the market (and of course not selling his winners). I'm sure some will find it surprising it's the losers he sells, not the winners!
Big Time
Member
Ahhhhhhhh! Driving me crazy. In such a messed up spot. I work in entertainment. Industry completely destroyed. I look at my shares and wish I had more. I’ve owned for 5+ years.....feel so silly that I only have as many as I do. I invested every penny I could and with the FUD during M3 ramp I was worried. Granted the stocks are worth more than what’s in my bank account, and has been a blessing 400% gains...... I still worry. I have actually one of the cheaper rentals apartments in NE Minneapolis which is kind of the up and coming neighborhood....so I’m lucky there, but with Covid dropping the price of stock so much, I only wish the federal and state govs were more on top of the unemployment. If I would have known that self employed contractors were going to get unemployment I would have bet everything I had and would have been able to buy a small house today....Instead, I have perhaps 1/3 of a small house and Will probably be denied a mortgage due to no job and low taxable income. Wish I wasn’t a poor kid up until now.....they make it so hard for people to live a decent life, owning their own home without paying the banks an amount of money that most people spend their entire working life trying to achieve. If anyone can help who’s selling property/land in MPLS/St Paul or would sell me a small amount of shares for slight discount, I’m all ears. Been hard Life, want it to be easy. I know this is borderline pathetic but hoping never hurt anyone(I hope)
A day would not be complete without some FUD:
What Investors Should Do Now; Seven Stocks In Focus
Meanwhile, Tesla cut the price of its Model Y crossover by $3,000, bringing the base version to $49,900. It's a sign of possible weak demand for the brand-new Tesla Model Y. Late Friday, Tesla set its annual shareholder meeting and Battery Day for Sept. 22.
What Investors Should Do Now; Seven Stocks In Focus
Meanwhile, Tesla cut the price of its Model Y crossover by $3,000, bringing the base version to $49,900. It's a sign of possible weak demand for the brand-new Tesla Model Y. Late Friday, Tesla set its annual shareholder meeting and Battery Day for Sept. 22.
Look on the bright side....you are probably better off than 80%+ of the population in the United States based on your current situation.
Barron's - today: Why Tesla’s ‘Battery Day’ is Even More Important than its Latest Earnings
Excerpt:
The company, for instance, is able to sell advanced safety features as a software upgraded on existing models for thousands of dollars. What's more, Tesla recently cracked the 400-mile per charge barrier on select Model S configurations. It was the first EV maker to earn a 400-mile rating from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
Wedbush analyst Dan Ives thinks the battery event will be a positive catalyst for Tesla stock. "Musk & Co. are slated to announce a number of new potential game changing battery developments," Ives wrote in a Sunday research report. He's expecting a million-mile battery announcement, among other enhancements. A million mile battery would last 1 million miles -- through all weather and charging cycles -- representing "a major step forward when competing versus traditional gasoline powered automotive competitors."
A million-mile battery lowers the total cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle, opens up ideas such as battery reuse and extends EVs environmental lead versus gasoline powered engines.
Excerpt:
The company, for instance, is able to sell advanced safety features as a software upgraded on existing models for thousands of dollars. What's more, Tesla recently cracked the 400-mile per charge barrier on select Model S configurations. It was the first EV maker to earn a 400-mile rating from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
Wedbush analyst Dan Ives thinks the battery event will be a positive catalyst for Tesla stock. "Musk & Co. are slated to announce a number of new potential game changing battery developments," Ives wrote in a Sunday research report. He's expecting a million-mile battery announcement, among other enhancements. A million mile battery would last 1 million miles -- through all weather and charging cycles -- representing "a major step forward when competing versus traditional gasoline powered automotive competitors."
A million-mile battery lowers the total cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle, opens up ideas such as battery reuse and extends EVs environmental lead versus gasoline powered engines.
TrendTrader007
Active Member
yeah but i bet i am magnitudes richer than the likes of you- mind your own business
go and make $4 million in a single day and then come and talk to me
otherwise go away and quit being a troll
Last edited:
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Yeah.
Well, every investor makes mistakes but I think the reason for his incredible performance is the buy/hold and not selling off his winners. The power of compounding gains.I do think hydrogen (clean hydrogen from electrolysis) has a future in energy storage, but it will probably never be used in cars (or not for at least 30-50 years)
TrendTrader007
Active Member
no idea- i will know it when it comes- could be end of september 2020 or whenever
Bet TSLA
Active Member
I'll be happy to talk to you when you're broke again. What happened to the whole "this is my last post" thing? You have no discipline.
Big Time
Member
I'm so conflicted as to how to rate this post. It's helpful, informative, funny, and I like, love, and disagree with it, all at the same time.
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