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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Something, something... "Sea of Opportunity." (TMC, Aug 11, 2020 @ 04:25 E.T.)
This is where your assumptions let you down. I arrived at my current sentiment on July 31st, when TSLA didn't find enough support to hold the Mid-BB (moving to the Lower-BB was just a question of 'when'). I don't share every conclusion I make. People on this board have all the tools and information to make informed decisions for themselves.
Now, even big shareholders who are interested in accumulating want the SP to go down. They won't fight hard to make it go up when shortzes are giving away free money. The signal, as always, will be when volume swings back to the heavy side. I'll be watching post-Labor day; this Market loves to jump the gun, and Bty Day could be a plump 3 wk run-up in advance. Throw in a likely S&P announcement during that run, and it'll be "well howdy". Q3 P&D numbers will be out just 7 trading days after Bty Day. Then a blow-out Earnings Call 3 wks after that.
For now in these doldrums, we are but poor lost sailors cast adrift on the Sea of Opportunity.
Cheers!
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
In effect, both companies did provide those post split shares (because only the company can authorize new shares and they do it for a fixed number). This is what you are missing. You are looking at it from an individual share perspective while someone has to account for the total number.
ByeByeJohnny
Active Member
I know The Verge is usually a no-no because of their constant negativity on anything Tesla.
But this is a more neutral and somewhat entertaining and enjoyable read on Tulsas try to get the Gigafactory. Still a bit of FUD here and there but not to bad and I think a few clicks on Tesla stories that aren't negative can't hurt.
The epic campaign to win Elon Musk’s Tesla factory with memes
Stay away from the comments though.
But this is a more neutral and somewhat entertaining and enjoyable read on Tulsas try to get the Gigafactory. Still a bit of FUD here and there but not to bad and I think a few clicks on Tesla stories that aren't negative can't hurt.
The epic campaign to win Elon Musk’s Tesla factory with memes
Stay away from the comments though.
my post was deleted because of “insulting” which is laughable
what IS insulting is that the board is now subject to non-factual nonsense over and over, while IGNORING facts about the mechanics and resulting transactions of a split
does it explain the rise in SP...no!!
...but neither does imaginary stories about ghost shares and what evil MMs do behind the scenes
the fact is, even with the MM exemption, they have a few extra days and then they fall into the same boat everyone else does.. they have to locate and borrow, or cover...period. i get that FINRA / SEC has to actually catch you skirting those parameters, which must be less than 50/50 ... but its not the freeforall that people portray here...
what IS insulting is that the board is now subject to non-factual nonsense over and over, while IGNORING facts about the mechanics and resulting transactions of a split
does it explain the rise in SP...no!!
...but neither does imaginary stories about ghost shares and what evil MMs do behind the scenes
the fact is, even with the MM exemption, they have a few extra days and then they fall into the same boat everyone else does.. they have to locate and borrow, or cover...period. i get that FINRA / SEC has to actually catch you skirting those parameters, which must be less than 50/50 ... but its not the freeforall that people portray here...
2020. The quarterly estimated tax payments are due two weeks after the end of the quarter in which they occurred. Paying the 3% penalty (the first quarter it's been that low BTW) is not onerous, but failing to pay it will almost automatically cause future years to be treated unfavorably. The new less-efficient, rich people favoring IRS still wants it's money as soon as possible.
I don't object to paying taxes, although I often object strenuously to the governments to which I must pay them. For TSLA's sake, if not ours, we might prefer a change in US government investment priorities to favor renewables and BEV's. That one quickly would go off topic.
We are lucky that TSLA is not paying dividends, in my view. Reinvestment is likely to continue for longer than my investment horizon.
True but side way trading if there's a drop after the dust settles isn't very fun either. Jeremy pointed out on his investing channel that it took 5 years to back fill the valuation jump to the 380s. Hopefully it's not the case going forward.
respectfully, and i do love you, im not missing anything
im just trying to give the textbook mechanics of split versus stock dividend (even though its categorized as dividend). yet a split is different than a div, one is income, one is not
there is no day to cover or return shares. the 'phantom' shares, even if 1 becomes 5, carry the same collateral, and covering them, when the time comes, may be just as easy (unless the stock keeps going up!) as prior to split. loan rates are still cheap for tesla (but this could change in a hurry, admittedly, and i hope it does)
and MMs - as stated above - even with the MM exemption, they have a few extra days and then they fall into the same boat everyone else does.. they have to locate and borrow, or cover (this could be a catalyst that you and Hock talk about, especially if the price keeps rising...but only (mainly) one of two things occur: if a ton more shorting occurs, or if people choose to recall their shares - i.e. if theres not enough shares to borrow
im sure that despite the textbook rules, that you and many other have a point in regards to some gamesmanship...but i think its just a factor of many. like that, combined with the crazy amount of calls, and mms following up the call ladder delta hedging, amongst others - trust me, i am not a market participant apologist
we really dont know why...but we DO know what a split is, how it works, the tax implications, and how it affects the stock loan market and broker-to-broker obligations
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lafrisbee
Active Member
TLDR.
I went straight to the amusement section, comments. Thanks. It was amusing.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Since you believe this is happening, do you know when the key date is (end of today or next Friday)?
lafrisbee
Active Member
To Infinity... and beyond
There ya go.
I do want to hear your perspectives on anything the stock price increase has caused you to experience... reflections, new horizons etc, what ya gonna do, what ya gonna do with the money....
(Hopefully this thread will remain active and reduce the clutter on the Investor roundtable thread....)
There ya go.
I do want to hear your perspectives on anything the stock price increase has caused you to experience... reflections, new horizons etc, what ya gonna do, what ya gonna do with the money....
(Hopefully this thread will remain active and reduce the clutter on the Investor roundtable thread....)
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I'm no expert in the accounting of corporate shares but it's apparent to me you know even less. Because every single share has a serial number and there are a fixed amount of them. If you get an actual share certificate it will list the serial numbers. This means phantom shares cannot become 5 new phantom shares - they need actual issued shares to be attached to them. And that is the entire point of the date of record.
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No, I don't. It doesn't matter to me. It'll happen when it happens. Not sure knowing what the effective date has to do with the larger concept of phantom shares in the system that now have to be dealt with, by those who created them.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
humbaba
sleeping until $7000
My understanding is that the company is authorized a certain number of shares and cannot issue more than that without first filing with the SEC. The speculation then was that 10:1 either breached the allowed share count or would have gotten too close to it (e.g., interfere with a cap raise, Elon's benefits, whatever).
I've been meaning to look into that, but haven't quite gotten around to it yet. So
ByeByeJohnny
Active Member
They are naming another kid?
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