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As ridiculous and pompous as he appears and as misleading and manipulative as he writes, he actually has a point with the above article.

Per Tesla's own information that he is citing, Supercharging can be quite expensive, e.g.
0.26 $/kWh in California,
Supercharging

I

Standard Southern California Edison Rates

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Standard Time of Use Plan for EV owners.

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Time-Of-Use Residential Rate Plans
 
In the Munich Tesla store I was told 0.17 € / kWh, i.e. 0.085 € / kWh @ 120 kW.

Try writing this sentence again in a way that makes sense :)

Also: VW isn't serving any vehicles at 120kW, let alone 350kW. There's a handful of I-Paces in the US and they theoretically max out at 100kW (has anyone ever successfully done this in practice? They certainly don't on CCS v1). Most CCS EVs in the US max out at ~50kW or even less.

VW can raise their prices any time they want if they ever actually have to start serving out genuine high charging powers.
 
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Jeeze Putin is so far up Trump's ass it beggars belief. How long is American going to continue with this nonsense?

On topic: looks like colour options for S/X have been reduced, unless this was something happened earlier that I missed. I see this:

View attachment 369032

So metallic black definitely gone now, maybe one more??

yeah, they definitely used to have like 3 different shades of grey/silver. whatever. if they're only going to offer boring colors anyway, may as well offer 5 boring colors instead of 8. those of us with a modicum of style take matters into our own hands anyway.
 
Media is far more concerned about Facebook and Google that are eating their lunch now to worry about something that might happen years down the road (and they would know this only if they were paying attention). The world doesn't revolve around Tesla.

I agree mostly, but Tesla's and in particular Elon's relationship with the media is ... complicated: for a complex set of reasons Tesla first started out a tech startup media darling poster-child that the car industry didn't take seriously, but in 2017-2018 media sentiment flipped over into Tesla and Elon becoming the safe media bullying target everyone is punching.

Tesla was handled particularly roughly by the business media, [due to unstoppable seeming red ink during the Model 3 ramp-up](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dwr4b9RVYAEYQ9W.jpg:large) and also due to convincing affinity fraud by prominent, well-connected shorts such as Chanos or Einhorn.

In 2019 all of this is changing - because of $$$,$$$,$$$ results.

This will convert most of the business media to much more neutral Tesla coverage (which is all we are asking for), and will discredit the shorts and unlock a much larger set of investors.
 
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[OT - delayed my reply to after market hours.]

Since you asked nicely-----
Ford under fire over grants payment

Car giant Ford has been criticised for accepting millions of pounds from UK taxpayers in the run-up to announcing the closure of its last British assembly plant, with the loss of 1,400 jobs.

PUBLISHED: 13:43, Tue, Nov 6, 2012
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Production of Ford's Transit van will switch from Swaythling in Southampton to Turkey [PA]

The vehicle manufacturer received cash from the regional growth fund (RGF) to help develop its Dagenham base, and was given an £80 million loan from the European Investment Bank (EIB) for its factory in Turkey, before revealing it would shut its plant at Swaythling in Southampton.

I fact checked this conspiracy theory and the "EU bribed Ford to move production to Turkey" logic does not add up.

Here's the true history of that incident with Ford, Swaythling/UK and Turkey :

In 2010 Ford extended its plans for Swaythling until 2012 only:

Even back in 2010 it was characterized by the BBC as a "last outpost", and Ford themselves portrayed continuation as uncertain:

'Last outpost'

A Ford spokesman said: "The plan remains the same at Southampton but we are unsure when the next generation of Transit will come in which pushes production of the current panel vans beyond 2011 at the site.​

As to the £80 million loan from the EIB: Ford getting the loan a couple of percent cheaper through the EIB was worth perhaps $10m in interest payments.

Do you really think that the European Union wanted to "bribe" Ford to remove this "last UK outpost" and move it to a country with much cheaper labor? With ... 10 million dollars?? I'm sorry, but that's a kindergarten level argument.

Or is it Ford, a large company worth tens of of billions of dollars, that gamed the system with skill, first collecting the maximum amounts of support from (desperate) local governments (under Tory leadership, mind you), and then by applying for an eligible loan at the EIB with a new Turkey site, conveniently not mentioning the political complications to the EIB that they are moving production from Swaythling to Turkey and the predictable political backlash the closure would generate?

Under what logic would the EU strive to achieve such an undesirable outcome?
 
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[OT - delayed my reply to after market hours.]



I fact checked this conspiracy theory and the "EU bribed Ford to move production to Turkey" logic does not add up.

Here's the true history of that incident with Ford, Swaythling/UK and Turkey :

In 2010 Ford extended its plans for Swaythling until 2012 only:

Even back in 2010 it was characterized by the BBC as a "last outpost", and Ford themselves portrayed continuation as uncertain:

'Last outpost'

A Ford spokesman said: "The plan remains the same at Southampton but we are unsure when the next generation of Transit will come in which pushes production of the current panel vans beyond 2011 at the site.​

As to the £80 million loan from the EIB: Ford getting the loan a couple of percent cheaper through the EIB was worth perhaps $10m in interest payments.

Do you really think that the European Union wanted to "bribe" Ford to remove this "last UK outpost" and move it to a country with much cheaper labor? With ... 10 million dollars?? I'm sorry, but that's a kindergarten level argument.

Or is it Ford, a large company worth tens of of billions of dollars, that gamed the system with skill, first collecting the maximum amounts of support from (desperate) local governments (under Tory leadership, mind you), and then by applying for an eligible loan at the EIB with a new Turkey site, conveniently not mentioning the political complications to the EIB that they are moving production from Swaythling to Turkey and the predictable political backlash the closure would generate?

Under what logic would the EU strive to achieve such an undesirable outcome?
You will think what you like, doesn't help with EU tinted specs, however Iwas talking about Transits/Ford/ sales/availability/ tie-up with Vw, with regard to the potential of Mr Trumps threatened trade embargo or worse. But as usual you preferred to take the Br/- it bait . This is not the place for Eu /Turkish politics we would be here for ever p.s. Shares up a little in the premarket:)
 
however Iwas talking about Transits/Ford/ sales/availability/ tie-up with Vw, with regard to the potential of Mr Trumps threatened trade embargo or worse.

I was replying to this conspiracy theory of yours:

This vehicle was built here for many years until the EU in it's infinite wisdom "bribed" Ford to move it to Turkey as a sweetener prelude to EU entry which sadly didn't happen ( yet)

And you posted that article as a reference during trading hours - but your conspiracy theory does not hold up, as I outlined in my previous reply.
 
I'm not saying any of these claims should be taken seriously (I did some digging on the ICE efficiency, and the best I could find for automotive was 38.5% peak with a theoretical peak limit of 46% that varied with what you took for parameters, but a 60% theoretical limit for turbines) and am using them to demonstrate the grain of salt his claim about safety should be taken with.

41% peak for road-legal gasoline late intake valve closing ICE (Toyota M20A-FXS, A25A-FXS) has been achieved, and 50% peak for racing gasoline turbocharged ICE with energy recovery turbine (Mercedes M08 EQ Power+) has been achieved.

M3 motors - wiring, chassis changes
If you decide to do half of these, you might as well incorporate 2170s (chassis changes (likely IMO), wiring changes plus cooling changes) where you get the real payback.

The changes for Model 3 motors would likely consist primarily of subframe and axle changes, and minor ones at that, mainly moving mounting points around as needed. That wouldn't need any unibody changes, and may not even require crash testing, whereas it's been claimed that a S/X 2170 pack would need unibody changes. (I'm not so convinced that that's the case, but in any case, a pack change is significantly more involved, and would require crash testing.)

It would be nice if Tesla had heat pumps as they can potentially be more efficient than resistive heating but realistically you still need the resistive heaters for when the temperatures are too cold, beyond the working range of the heat pump system. LEAF and Prius both have heat pumps I believe.

I don't think the Prius Prime has a PTC heater (the standard Prius actually does have one, though), but it has an ICE that it can use for heat when the heat pump becomes ineffective.

I suppose such system may not be able to be scaled down effectively to be put on car, but I wonder what GM bolt do? One poster mentioned bolt only uses a heat pump.

AFAIK, the only car with a refrigerated battery and a heat pump in the same car is the BMW i3, and their solution is to have two separate compressors, one dedicated to cooling, one dedicated to heating. The REx can't have a heat pump because the REx's fuel tank goes where the BEV's second compressor goes.

Right off the bat, is he assuming a constant kW charge rate regardless of SoC? I love him.

Given that the Audi e-tron is hammering its battery at 150 kW all the way up to 80%... it might actually be a safe assumption that VW is doing exactly that.

But then I rewatched Ingineerix's review of the Model 3 cooling and refrigerant system.

I encourage everyone else to do the same,

When he says (at 0m45s) of the cooling system "the water can actually be cooler than ambient" (he goes on to correct his 'water' to 'glycol') that sounds a lot like the heat pump can move heat arbitrarily (as opposed to being limited so it according to some convention would be an air conditioner).

This is explained with some more details starting at 4m20s, basically the refrigerant system has two loops, a standard one for the A/C and a second one for extracting heat from the car's glycol-based cooling system.

He doesn't detail the whole AC system, though, only the "cold" side. If there's valves to switch the cabin loop and its evaporator over to the hot side (making it act as a condenser), and optionally the condenser to the cold side (making it act as an evaporator), while keeping the battery cooling loop on the cold side, then it would be a heat pump system. He doesn't mention that, though.
 
I was replying to this conspiracy theory of yours:



And you posted that article as a reference during trading hours - but your conspiracy theory does not hold up, as I outlined in my previous reply.

Mr Cat is part of the $EUQ group... ;)

Meanwhile, on Twitter:

TeslaQ HQ on Twitter

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41% peak for road-legal gasoline late intake valve closing ICE (Toyota M20A-FXS, A25A-FXS) has been achieved, and 50% peak for racing gasoline turbocharged ICE with energy recovery turbine (Mercedes M08 EQ Power+) has been achieved.

Note that these thermal efficiency figures do not include the ~15% losses while crude oil is refined, nor the energy cost of extracting and transporting crude - which can be as high as ~5%.
 
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China offers Elon Musk permanent residency

This article made me think.
Elon is real treasure for US economy, W.Street, US automotive future, space program...
What is the attitude of the environment to such treasure?
SEC business, mainstream attacks & FUD, analytical underestimation and defense of an existing business, bad financial support, shorters...dozen obstacles.

Elon has a choice now. He switched country before. He is pushed with all negativism towards China which might be good.
China welcomed him warmly.
Tesla is one thing, SpaceX is completely another dimension in geostrategy.
Think W.Street, think big guys what are you doing on long term! Think what you could lose. Just think! Are you capable to think?
 
Note that these thermal efficiency figures do not include the ~15% losses while crude oil is refined, nor the energy cost of extracting and transporting crude - which can be as high as ~5%.

Why are we even bothering to discuss ICE peak efficiencies anyway? Non-hybrid ICE vehicles don't average anywhere near their peak efficiency. 20-25% average efficiency is typical. Even with a CVT you can only hit peak efficiency when operating in a specific power band, which is generally well higher than you cruise at (you hit it only when towing something heavy, climbing a steep slope, or passing). For optimal efficiency, ICE engines like to be run at near their maximum torque limit at several thousand RPMs, and if you cruised at near your maximum torque limit, you'd have to shift gears to overtake. Efficiency is also dragged down by braking and idling.

The engines in full hybrids usually average fairly close to their peak efficiency, although they do so with adding more losses into the system elsewhere. It's still a significant gain, of course.
 
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China welcomed him warmly.

China stuck Elon's Tesla with 25%-40% import tariffs and locked him out of Chinese EV incentives for years.

Elon complained to Trump he pays 25% tariff into China while Chinese cars pay 2.5% tariff coming into the USA. Elon said it was like competing in the Olympics while being forced to wear lead shoes.

After years of negotiations, a trade war, and agreeing to side deals like opening a R&D center in China and perhaps agreeing to buy cells from Chinese companies Tesla is being allowed to open its own factory in China.

Elon is a libertarian. Chinese Communist Party is exact opposite of that.

There are orders of magnitude more Chinese engineers immigrating to the USA than American engineers immigrating to China.
 
China offers Elon Musk permanent residency

This article made me think.
Elon is real treasure for US economy, W.Street, US automotive future, space program...
What is the attitude of the environment to such treasure?
SEC business, mainstream attacks & FUD, analytical underestimation and defense of an existing business, bad financial support, shorters...dozen obstacles.

Elon has a choice now. He switched country before. He is pushed with all negativism towards China which might be good.
China welcomed him warmly.
Tesla is one thing, SpaceX is completely another dimension in geostrategy.
Think W.Street, think big guys what are you doing on long term! Think what you could lose. Just think! Are you capable to think?

The weird thing with USA is that all demographics seem quite anti-Musk, even progressive liberals. I can only put this down to the continual FUD campaign from the media. Must be a bit soul-destroying for Elon, who works tirelessly to improve all our futures.

I'd be quite happy for Tesla to get out of the US completely, seems a very toxic country now and I'm not sure it's going to change for some time. I'd never move to the US, the idea of walking down the street where everyone has a gone terrifies me.
 
FUDsters really working their magic today. Detroit Auto Show proves that EVs are the future. Traditional auto manufacturers basically admitting that Tesla is the company they want to emulate and that Tesla is far ahead of them. Traditional auto manufacturers also admitting that they will need to spend billions of dollars to TRY to catch up to Tesla, and then the traditional auto manufacturers make claims about possible future models, but they do not have any actual product yet to truly directly compete with Tesla. Yet, Tesla, which has the mass market car, has the high-end car, has an amazing SUV, has a charging network in place, now seems to know how to mass produce a relatively moderately priced EV, is selling tens of thousands of cars each month, has actually shown some great future products, etc, gets hammered in the markets. If one looks at the news coming out of Detroit, seem like the arguments that the shorts and media have been using against Tesla actually apply to the traditional auto manufacturers. Yet, somehow the FUDsters have managed to get headlines (which get picked up by the algos) and spin the news in a way that is a positive for the traditional auto manufacturers and a negative for Tesla. Just when I thought I had seen everything from these charlatans . . .

... and Nissan (Infinity) entrant is DOA.

Well, its been DOA from 2013 when they showed a prototype. More than anything else, this shows they couldn't compete with Tesla.

Just for the record, in case someone missed the news -- via @ValueAnalyst on twitter here is VGrinshpun linking to cnbc:

Vladimir Grinshpun‏ @VGrinshpun







$TSLA Where is $TSLAQ Potemkin Village team when one needs them? Executives pulled the plug on Infiniti QX Inspiration (
1f644.png
) after technicians apparently failed to revive it so it can be driven on the stage.
 
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Reactions: Drumheller
Just for the record, in case someone missed the news -- via @ValueAnalyst on twitter here is VGrinshpun linking to cnbc:

Vladimir Grinshpun‏ @VGrinshpun







$TSLA Where is $TSLAQ Potemkin Village team when one needs them? Executives pulled the plug on Infiniti QX Inspiration (
1f644.png
) after technicians apparently failed to revive it so it can be driven on the stage.

OH MY GOD:

"Nissan was scheduled to debut its new Infiniti QX Inspiration concept car at the Detroit auto show on Monday, but executives delayed the launch and closed the curtains on the car without any explanation.

Executives said they couldn’t get the car started and eventually had to push it on stage."

I think this is going to serve as meme fodder for years.

Here's my attempt:

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