Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[JRP3]

In other words:
"the end justifies the means".

Especially when there are no actual downsides to the "means". People use avatars of other people ALL THE TIME. All this hand wringing over nothing is ridiculous. Please stop, at least in this thread.

 

[lklundin]

With the help of a couple of tug boats the car carrier Grand Venus is just now arriving at Pier 80.

GRAND VENUS Current position (Vehicles Carrier, IMO 9303211) - VesselFinder

This will be the tenth shipment this year.

Tesla Carriers

 

[Singer3000]

I "love" May's no-deal BRExit like I love radioactive rain after a nuclear strike, and UK automotive demand will possibly crash after a no-deal BRExit:

• The pound will further crash in value, making U.S. produced Tesla's more expensive to UK customers.
• European car parts and components going into US made cars will make US cars more expensive, even if they are sold in the UK.
• The UK will likely enter a recession (economic contraction) as EU related service and manufacturing jobs move to France, Germany and Ireland.
• Hundreds of thousands of Europeans will flee the UK, as the purchasing power of wages there adjusts downward and as unemployment and xenophobia rises - further contracting the UK economy.
• I'd not be surprised to see a 10%+ drop in U.K. new car purchases.

There's very little upside to anyone from a Brexit, and that includes Tesla sales. It's a lose-lose act of increased trade inefficiencies.

(The Murdochs will escape the pesky European media ownership anti-monopoly regulations, so the UK tabloid and TV industry might see a boom and further concentration of power and increase in political influence, so it's not all gloom and doom.)

Just so we're clear, you think Brexit is a good idea or a bad idea?

 

[Tslynk67]

I am no electrical/chemical engineer, but really enjoyed his explanation on Tesla buying Maxwell... might be worth 10min.
Jack can be entertaining, in small portions.

TBH, he doesn't strike me as a "small portion" kind of guy...

 

[Fact Checking]

Just so we're clear, you think Brexit is a good idea or a bad idea?

I can only quote Donald Tusk:

Twitter

"I've been wondering what that special place in hell looks like, for those who promoted #Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely."​

No-deal BRExit is going to be the most expensive, most destructive power grab of a media empire since Berlusconi.

I don't expect Tesla to gain from it either.

 

[Carl Raymond]

In other words:
"the end justifies the means".

Depends on the means. Those five words cast a blanket too large.

 

[Singer3000]

I can only quote Donald Tusk:

Twitter

"I've been wondering what that special place in hell looks like, for those who promoted #Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely."​

No-deal BRExit is going to be the most expensive, most destructive power grab of a media empire since Berlusconi.

I don't expect Tesla to gain from it either.

Luckily things rarely work out as well you hope or as badly as you fear.

 

[EVMeister]

This is becoming another Brexit thread I see. I come here to escape UK politics!

 

[KarenRei]

This is becoming another Brexit thread I see. I come here to escape UK politics!

Thank you, thank you, I'll show myself out now....
{{{That's what they said!!!}}}

 

[lklundin]

I "love" May's no-deal BRExit like I love radioactive rain after a nuclear strike, and UK automotive demand will possibly crash after a no-deal BRExit

As a guest on the Late Show John Oliver succinctly compares the no-deal Brexit to jumping out of an airplane without a parachute.

On a positive note (for the US viewers) he points out that the Trump presidency has a hard date where it ends (be it 2 or 6 years away) whereas the damage from the Brexit is "generational",

(5m15s in for the political analysis).

 

[KarenRei]

On a positive note (for the US viewers) he points out that the Trump presidency has a hard date where it ends

Theoretically, at least

 

[shlokavica22]

Tesla uses the same chemistry in both its 18650 and 2170 cells

Didn't they decreased the use of cobalt in 2070? Does it mean the chemistry of 18650 was updated to match the one in 2170, or what?

 

[KarenRei]

Didn't they decreased the use of cobalt in 2070? Does it mean the chemistry of 18650 was updated to match the one in 2170, or what?

Why wouldn't they?

 

[cricketman]

I picked up my Model 3 Performance on Friday from Madrid, one of the first 10 Model 3 deliveries here in Spain!

Here are my initial impressions:
- This thing is way better looking in real life that in the photos or videos. I was not expecting such a stunning car!
- Quality of the interior is excellent, again way better than I was expecting, seats are very comfortable and everything well thought out
- I love the minimal interior and the central tablet, doesn't need any more instruments in my opinion, works brilliantly as it is
- We get spotify here in Europe. Any music I want whenever I want, amazing! The Model 3 feels like a mobile theatre or the best way ever on which to enjoy a tablet multimedia experience, it barely feels like a car at all
- Maps and navigation were great
- Battery usage drained faster than I was expecting, You really have to drive very carefully to get close to the expected range and I loved testing out the insane acceleration, and couple that to going at 130kmh over the mountains up to Asturias, the 500km range was more like 350. Still, the supercharger experience was great, and once there are more of these around then there is really no problem
- I don't have the wall charger yet so just charged it overnight in a regular plug socket. Got 11km range per hour which was a great bonus, was not expecting so much
- My petrolhead brother in-law took it for a spin yesterday and said it was up there with Porsches with the way it drives. I love technology and great looking cars, but I don't really care about performance actually. What is great is being able to accelerate at any speed you want, it gives you amazing freedom!
- I haven't got to grips with autopilot yet. I tried it on the motorway on the way home and it freaked me out. I will try and figure this out next weekend

This is an amazing car for EUR78,000. Once someone can get a short range non-performance version for EUR45k, goodness me, its game over for the Germans! I cant imagine why anyone would choose a BMW, Audi or Mercedes over this. The only (big) negative now is that not many people here in Spain can afford EU60k+ for a car, and in fact, the Tesla sales person mentioned that sales in Spain are a little disappointing. That's why it is essential that the price comes down. Actually I think this is way too much car for the price, maybe Elon should have been slightly less ambitious, this thing is incredible!

 

[lklundin]

Didn't they decreased the use of cobalt in 2070? Does it mean the chemistry of 18650 was updated to match the one in 2170, or what?

Yes, Elon Musk said last year that their 2170 cell's NCA-cathode already uses less cobalt than the (10%) fraction in the next generation NMC-811 cathode,
Panasonic reduces Tesla’s cobalt consumption by 60% in 6 years ... | Benchmark Minerals

In principle nothing should prevent the usage of that chemistry also in the 18650 form factor.

 

[KarenRei]

- We get spotify here in Europe. Any music I want whenever I want, amazing!

Whoa, really? Neat!

- Battery usage drained faster than I was expecting, You really have to drive very carefully to get close to the expected range and I loved testing out the insane acceleration, and couple that to going at 130kmh over the mountains up to Asturias, the 500km range was more like 350. Still, the supercharger experience was great, and once there are more of these around then there is really no problem

* Net elevation changes can have a significant range effect (up-and-down with no net change, a lesser effect)
* AWD and P have higher consumption / shorter range than RWD.
* You're probably on the 20" wheels. They're huge range killers.

The only (big) negative now is that not many people here in Spain can afford EU60k+ for a car, and in fact, the Tesla sales person mentioned that sales in Spain are a little disappointing.

EV sales in Spain in general are disappointing. At least they're not as bad as Italy

Congrats on your car! I can't wait until they open up sales in Iceland!

ED: I'm giddy over the use of Spotify instead of Slacker. I've never personally used either, but I'm finding much more obscure music on Spotify. For example, they have one of Nóra's albums - I can listen to Kolbítur! They have VAR - I can listen to songs like like "Back Home" and Varmá"! They have Sturle Dagsland - I can listen to bizarre things sung by an insane elf! This is so cool!!!

Any clue what the bitrate is?

 

[shlokavica22]

Yes, Elon Musk said last year that their 2170 cell's NCA-cathode already uses less cobalt than the (10%) fraction in the next generation NMC-811 cathode,
Panasonic reduces Tesla’s cobalt consumption by 60% in 6 years ... | Benchmark Minerals

In principle nothing should prevent the usage of that chemistry also in the 18650 form factor.

Did we discuss this here before, or is Jack Richard the first one bringing this up (with a proof)?

 

[lklundin]

EV sales in Spain in general are disappointing. At least they're not as bad as Italy

For Spain one problem is that the electricity producers have subverted the legislation so to have residential PV one has to pay an "infrastructure tax" that makes PV uneconomical. (Well, you can have PV if you are not connected to the grid).

So in spite of all that sun, there is no charging at home for free...

 

[cheshire cat]

I "love" May's no-deal BRExit like I love radioactive rain after a nuclear strike, and UK automotive demand will possibly crash after a no-deal BRExit:

• The pound will further crash in value, making U.S. produced Tesla's more expensive to UK customers.
• European car parts and components going into US made cars will make US cars more expensive, even if they are sold in the UK.
• The UK will likely enter a recession (economic contraction) as EU related service and manufacturing jobs move to France, Germany and Ireland.
• Hundreds of thousands of Europeans will flee the UK, as the purchasing power of wages there adjusts downward and as unemployment and xenophobia rises - further contracting the UK economy.
• I'd not be surprised to see a 10%+ drop in U.K. new car purchases.

There's very little upside to anyone from a Brexit, and that includes Tesla sales. It's a lose-lose act of increased trade inefficiencies.

(The Murdochs will escape the pesky European media ownership anti-monopoly regulations, so the UK tabloid and TV industry might see a boom and further concentration of power and increase in political influence, so it's not all gloom and doom.)



The problem for Tesla is:

U.S. agency submits auto tariff probe report to White House | Reuters

"Automakers and parts suppliers are anticipating its recommendation options will include broad tariffs of up to 20 percent to 25 percent on assembled cars and parts, or narrower tariffs targeting components and technologies related to new energy cars, autonomous, internet-connected and shared vehicles."​

So even if Trump starts with "narrower" tariffs, it's already bad for Tesla - as @KarenRei suspected.

Just a little car/Brexit item, which may have been missed, it is reported that Porker dealers are requesting customers to sign an "agreement " to pay an extra 10% if delivery falls after Brexit. I wonder what the percentage is of those daft enough to comply. They already treat you like they're doing you a favour, watch this space.

 

[cheshire cat]

For Spain one problem is that the electricity producers have subverted the legislation so to have residential PV one has to pay an "infrastructure tax" that makes PV uneconomical. (Well, you can have PV if you are not connected to the grid).

So in spite of all that sun, there is no charging at home for free...

From comments by Jack Richard it sounds like they have been learning from our US cousins. " avoided cost of production"