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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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For someone of a Tesla Investment forum, you don't seem very informed about Tesla.

Body shops can buy Tesla parts now... Tesla will always service their own cars...

If you are a Texas car dealer hoping to sell Tesla cars, you are out of luck..

Not really talking about body shops, but that is good. Every time my X has been in the shop it has been for items no one can buy from Tesla. The new one is the yellow border. Not sure what to do about that. They call it "cosmetic", but it impacts the visibility of the screen edges.

Tesla support in Richmond is really bad. They won't even put on the ticket items they don't want to deal with.
 
Seriously, I don't get why anyone would focus so much on how much GAAP profit Tesla makes for the next 2-3 years. EBITDA, cash flow, and revenue growth are king. Amazon showed Wall St what's possible with little to no GAAP income

I'm glad though that after Q2, Tesla will at least be profitable, even by a $1 from here on out(for the most part). So sick of hearing Tesla isn't profitable

I don't see x axis labels on that graph, but it seems to maybe quarters? In that case it would seem to indicate EBIDTA crashing again in the next six months.

Personally I've never understood why anyone would care about EBIDTA. The IDTA part of finances can turn a nice profit into a huge loss. Tesla is not shy on borrowing money so I is not trivial, is it?
 
I don't see x axis labels on that graph, but it seems to maybe quarters? In that case it would seem to indicate EBIDTA crashing again in the next six months.

Personally I've never understood why anyone would care about EBIDTA. The IDTA part of finances can turn a nice profit into a huge loss. Tesla is not shy on borrowing money so I is not trivial, is it?

With your perspective, why did you invest in Tesla in the first place? You're either not a good investor or not a good liar, or both.
 
Battery Day should announce that Tesla will make their own cells, in Fremont, Nevada, Shanghai, Berlin and Texas, in addition to continuing to use cells from Panasonic, CATL and/or LG. Consider that Battery Day should mean price party with an ICE drive-train.

I'm so excited! I hadn't even heard about the price party but it sounds worthy of celebrating. :D

Who's hosting?;)
 
With your perspective, why did you invest in Tesla in the first place? You're either not a good investor or not a good liar, or both.

Whoa, whoa there boy! I'm looking at a data series that shows a cycle of swinging positive and negative. Why would anyone think the cycle has ended based on this data? Why do you have to call me a liar?

I'm not saying I agree with the data. But you can't deny that is the trend in that data set.

Why do people have to be so militant here?
 
After-action Report: Fri, Jun 12, 2020: (Full-Day's Trading)

Traded: $15,777,283,200.39 ($15.78 B)
Volume: 16,768,602
VWAP: $940.88

Closing SP / VWAP: 99.39%
(TSLA closed BELOW today's Avg SP)
TSLA Mkt Cap: 173.471B (94.59% of TM)​

FINRA Short/Total Volume = 56.6% (52nd Percentile rank Shorting)
FINRA Volume / Total NASDAQ Vol = 49.7% (50th Percentile rank FINRA Reporting)
FINRA Short Exempt Volume was 1.48% of Short Volume (53rd Percentile rank)

Comment: "NYC reopens Wallstreet for Haircuts"

TSLA - SUMMARY TABLE - 2020-06-12.png
 
The question of starting the Tesla Network with human drivers has been brought up to Elon before, I think on a earnings call, and as I recall he said that was a good idea. I don't know that they will have a special purchase program for Tesla Network drivers, but other than that I expect it to arrive sometime in the future.

Last year's shareholder's meeting. 1:11:00


Also, @DaveT mentioned in one of his videos that he heard from a Tesla employee at the autonomy day that Tesla is already reiterating on their ride-sharing app/platform.

(Watch from 8:00)
 
GAAP Net Income is terrible metric.

Look at the trailing EBITDA
View attachment 550923

I do see a nice trend in that EBITDA graph. Namely, that the cycles below the zero line are decreasing in duration and the trips above the zero line are increasing in amplitude. This leads to me to think it might not go below the zero line again.
 
I'm so excited! I hadn't even heard about the price party but it sounds worthy of celebrating. :D

Who's hosting?;)

I still don’t quite get exactly what “price parity” means between ICE & EV power trains. What characteristics is it comparing exactly? Horsepower? And what size battery is used in any comparison - one that gets 100 miles, 200 miles or 400 miles? Or is it simply based on selling price? So drivetrain of a Typical $38k ICE car is compared to $38k Model 3 SR+ power train?
 
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I still don’t quite get exactly what “price parity” means between ICE & EV power trains. What characteristics is it comparing exactly? Horsepower? And what size battery is used in any comparison - one that gets 100 miles, 200 miles or 400 miles? Or is it simply based on selling price? So drivetrain of a Typical $38k ICE car is compared to $38k Model 3 SR+ power train?

Generally it just means $100 kWh at pack level meaning a 50 kWh pack costs $5K and a ICE drive-train is estimated to be $5K.

Obviously these are all just rough estimates and averages.. but $100 kWh at pack level is a significant milestone..

So once the battery pack is in the same ballpark as the cost of the motor, the purchase price of a typical EV should trend towards the purchase price of a similar ICE.

While it is largely symbolic, it is a significant tipping point, as this type of milestone frames the debate.
 
Generally it just means $100 kWh at pack level meaning a 50 kWh pack costs $5K and a ICE drive-train is estimated to be $5K.

Obviously these are all just rough estimates and averages.. but $100 kWh at pack level is a significant milestone..

So once the battery pack is in the same ballpark as the cost of the motor, the purchase price of a typical EV should trend towards the purchase price of a similar ICE.

While it is largely symbolic, it is a significant tipping point, as this type of milestone frames the debate.

so a 50KW pack is what is being used in the typical ICE vs EV power train comparison?

I only ask because obviously a 40KW or 60KW pack would lead to very different price comparison outcomes for example.
 
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I still don’t quite get exactly what “price parity” means between ICE & EV power trains. What characteristics is it comparing exactly? Horsepower? And what size battery is used in any comparison - one that gets 100 miles, 200 miles or 400 miles? Or is it simply based on selling price? So drivetrain of a Typical $38k ICE car is compared to $38k Model 3 SR+ power train?
Obviously there is no exact meaning. But for most people, a 250 mile range model 3 sr like Powertrain, compared to a similar 6 cyl Gas Powertrain.
 
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I still don’t quite get exactly what “price parity” means between ICE & EV power trains. What characteristics is it comparing exactly? Horsepower? And what size battery is used in any comparison - one that gets 100 miles, 200 miles or 400 miles? Or is it simply based on selling price? So drivetrain of a Typical $38k ICE car is compared to $38k Model 3 SR+ power train?

As I see it, that's the beauty of price parity as FUD. First, it distracts from TCO, a better-defined and more important metric that EVs already do pretty well on. And by reframing the debate around price parity, one can support EVs publicly while at the same time urging consumers to wait for the next generation of vehicles (and meanwhile buy ICE or hybrid). And since "price parity" isn't rigorously redefined, one can keep moving the goalposts and repeating the FUD cycle indefinitely.
 
There are lots of fanbois here. I'm trying to be realistic. I am still holding 288 shares and put in a sell order for 920 the other day, then canceled because I've already sold a bunch and don't want to pay more taxes. I want to properly estimate the likelihood of doing better by holding until 2021 and a good time to buy back in on the stocks I have sold.




Fremont production of Model Y is behind schedule because of the virus and possibly quality issues (not sure if the reports are valid or not). So they may still achieve +50% in 2020.

GF Berlin is not new. It's a year out or so, no? Will that ramp production 50%, I don't think so. More like +33%. So how to get +50% in 2021?

GF in Texas is still just a wet dream, producing what exactly? Semi perhaps? So is this being counted twice? Cyber truck? All of these are a fair way from production, 2022 maybe? Even then, will that be +50% in 2022 on top of S, X, 3 and Y production? Very unlikely. More like +20%.

I just don't by an average growth of +50% for 10 years. This is pure speculation and whatever the opposite of FUD is.




That would be great... when? Battery costs are still too high for a lower cost compact. It will happen, but not in the next couple of years for certain.




Ok, we will see.




Not sure I said anything about "fairly slowly". Another post talked about a prediction that Tesla will grow an average of 50% a year for the next 10 years. That would be along the same lines as gas consumption tailing off significantly in the next year or two other than from external issues like the coronavirus.




I'm not sure it is that simple. Surely there are advantages of being first and having infrastructure to support EVs. But there is time for all entries to grow as the market grows. Then later when something happens to slow the growth or shrink the market there will be a shake out. I see this often in the semiconductor market. They have similar investment in large fabs costing billions of dollars.




Mad panic is not a term I would use. The world is still buying 50 times more ICE than EVs. I think there is still time to design the right sort of EVs. That's why companies change their plans rather than come out with a product that might not sell well. A poor product at this time would be very bad for the company and very bad for careers. Much worse than a delay.

I pity Ford who likely would love to push an electric F150. But will their customers really like that or is it the wrong market for an EV?
How are you only holding 288sh if you CANCELLED a sell order for 920sh?
 
so a 50KW pack is what is being used in the typical ICE vs EV power train comparison?

I only ask because obviously a 40KW or 60KW pack would lead to very different price comparison outcomes for example.

I think 50 kWh was chosen because it is a typical or average size for an entry level EV.

Apart from $100 per kWh being the target there isn't a general consensus.

If we think in terms of a 100 kWh Model S/X pack it is obviously 10K, but those cars are in a different segment..
Even if the ICE drive-train in that segment doesn't cost 10K, the gap is still narrowing significantly...

Obviously it will eventually go lower than $100 kWh... it is all about perception and a tipping point triggering a change in behaviour.. humans tend to rely on round numbers and broad assumptions when framing milestones..
 
I still don’t quite get exactly what “price parity” means between ICE & EV power trains. What characteristics is it comparing exactly? Horsepower? And what size battery is used in any comparison - one that gets 100 miles, 200 miles or 400 miles? Or is it simply based on selling price? So drivetrain of a Typical $38k ICE car is compared to $38k Model 3 SR+ power train?

Analyst never explain exactly.

How would I do it?

A 2020 Toyota Camry V6 gets a combined 26 MPG and has a 16 gallon gas tank. So roughly 400 miles of range. And does 0-60 in ~5.8 seconds and 1/4 mile in ~14.5 seconds.

So roughly how much does it cost to get roughly equal performance in an electric powertrain in a similar sized form factor.

I guess you can also do a BMW 3 Series 4 cylinder turbo etc.
 
There are lots of fanbois here. I'm trying to be realistic. I am still holding 288 shares and put in a sell order for 920 the other day, then canceled because I've already sold a bunch and don't want to pay more taxes. I want to properly estimate the likelihood of doing better by holding until 2021 and a good time to buy back in on the stocks I have sold.




Fremont production of Model Y is behind schedule because of the virus and possibly quality issues (not sure if the reports are valid or not). So they may still achieve +50% in 2020.

GF Berlin is not new. It's a year out or so, no? Will that ramp production 50%, I don't think so. More like +33%. So how to get +50% in 2021?

GF in Texas is still just a wet dream, producing what exactly? Semi perhaps? So is this being counted twice? Cyber truck? All of these are a fair way from production, 2022 maybe? Even then, will that be +50% in 2022 on top of S, X, 3 and Y production? Very unlikely. More like +20%.

I just don't by an average growth of +50% for 10 years. This is pure speculation and whatever the opposite of FUD is.




That would be great... when? Battery costs are still too high for a lower cost compact. It will happen, but not in the next couple of years for certain.




Ok, we will see.




Not sure I said anything about "fairly slowly". Another post talked about a prediction that Tesla will grow an average of 50% a year for the next 10 years. That would be along the same lines as gas consumption tailing off significantly in the next year or two other than from external issues like the coronavirus.




I'm not sure it is that simple. Surely there are advantages of being first and having infrastructure to support EVs. But there is time for all entries to grow as the market grows. Then later when something happens to slow the growth or shrink the market there will be a shake out. I see this often in the semiconductor market. They have similar investment in large fabs costing billions of dollars.




Mad panic is not a term I would use. The world is still buying 50 times more ICE than EVs. I think there is still time to design the right sort of EVs. That's why companies change their plans rather than come out with a product that might not sell well. A poor product at this time would be very bad for the company and very bad for careers. Much worse than a delay.

I pity Ford who likely would love to push an electric F150. But will their customers really like that or is it the wrong market for an EV?

There are many metrics pointing out that Model Y production is not as bad as you think. We see vins in the 14xxx taking deliveries and mass emails sent out to reservation holders about preparing for delivery before the month end. I wouldn't be surprised if 15k model Ys are delivered this Q. Additional 25-30k Model 3s are in the bag from China. Tesla also had close to 30k worth of inventory starting the quarter, and additional 1.7 months of production that is going very "well" according to Elon. So it's not hard to see 80k+ deliveries this Q which means pretty close to profitability once you add FSD revenue recognition and EV credits. There's also a very high possibility that deliveries will massively outpace production due to the additional cars left over from last Q + production shut down which is another tail wind for financials. I am pretty bullish on Q2 actually since a 'surprise profit" will just shoot Tesla over the moon. You can choose to miss sit out if you don't think so.
 
Texas may well see a lot more issues in their second wave than they did in the first.
...

Neither you nor anyone else knows. As for the rest of your post, I literally just found this in a fortune cookie...

85248ED9-A9D3-4BA7-86F4-7DDE5B2C47C6.jpeg


So it’s off to ignore-land with you.
 
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As I see it, that's the beauty of price parity as FUD. First, it distracts from TCO, a better-defined and more important metric that EVs already do pretty well on.

I strongly disagree with this.

While TCO is important it is highly variable with location and time. And can change drastically by government fiat. Mainly taxes on liquid fuel and gas guzzler taxes.

It is important to know when cost of BEVs reaches parity or is cheaper independent of these factors.