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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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It is not about money. I've worked in software development for 23 years. It is very obvious to me that Tesla is taking the best approach to solving this problem. I dont know how to convey that point of view to non software people.
I'm a retired software guy. I have great confidence that Tesla is far ahead of everybody else based on a single thing: they have pretty much thrown out all their software and rewritten it from scratch. Twice. Having the courage to do that is rare. But with what is essentially a research problem it is the only way to succeed. You have to build a real system, then throw it out when you finally understand enough to know how you got it all wrong. That takes money and time, both of which are almost never available in sufficient supply.

The only reason this is possible is because Elon is a software guy (among his many other talents).

Now this is no guarantee that Tesla will solve the problem. But I'm reasonably sure that nobody else will get there before them.
 
All of the models assume that Tesla solves robotaxi first and that we don't have any competition. What if 1) we aren't first 2) we aren't best 3) we have multiple deep pocket competitors. Too soon to crown a winner when the race has just started. Also, the models put big multiples on profits. Elon has stated that the RT software will be a commodity in ten years. If it was patentable, I'd feel better about paying $150B for it. I don't think it is.

I feel like you don't have a good understanding of this space. I'd suggest reading the Autonomy section of this blog I wrote.

Here's an excerpt summing up Tesla's position:

Putting it all together
If you're still with me, let's try to piece all of this autonomy information together, and let's see what Tesla's chances are in this industry. To do so, let's look at how well Tesla is positioned in each of the things important to creating an FSD system.
  • Perception. Vision is the most important element here. You can take a shortcut by using LIDAR, but you're going to need a world class computer vision system eventually to get to full autonomy. HD Maps in theory is a good alternative to vision for localization, but in practice it is extremely hard to make it work because of the scale required to make it work worldwide, and because they need to be kept up-to-date. Only Mobileye's mapping solution seems like it could work, but why not just do localization through vision. Tesla is one of a few companies entirely focused on solving vision, and among those companies Tesla is the clear leader.
  • Planning. I haven't talked much about approaches that companies have to planning, because there isn't a lot of information available. Tesla showed a number of impressive examples during their Autonomy Investor Day of how they use things like shadow mode to test and refine new features, but I have not been able to find anything about how others' approaches may differ.
  • Iteration. Real world data is everything here, and nobody has a fleet that can be used for real world testing and data gathering anywhere close to the size of Tesla's. As a matter of fact, all of Tesla's competitors combined don't even have a fleet that's in the same ballpark as Tesla's. Furthermore, Tesla's production (and therefore Tesla's fleet size) is increasing exponentially, so this is pretty much Game, Set, and Match. And I haven't even talked about things such as Operation Vacation, that once completed will supposedly automate Tesla's entire training & iteration process, so that Tesla's Autopilot team can go on a vacation, hence the name.
  • Hardware. As I've talked about, Tesla's autonomy chip is at least one to two years ahead of the competition's chips from Mobileye and Nvidia.
  • Regulatory Approval. Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody, has a clear path to proving their system saves lives, except for Tesla. Mobileye's RSS seems like a moonshot that's unlikely to convince regulators. Tesla is the only player that will be able to gather enough data to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that their system saves lives.
Taking this all in, I think the question we have to ask ourselves is not who's going to be the first to solve autonomy, that will be Tesla for sure. The question we need to ask ourselves is whether anybody else will be able to solve autonomy before the point of no return beyond which Tesla's monopoly is inevitable. I think the answer to that second question is quite possibly "no".

Waymo does not stand a chance. Their strategy is flawed in that they rely on LIDAR and an effectively impossible to scale HD Maps system. Their fleet is also too small. Other companies using LIDAR are in even worse shape than Waymo. All the same flaws, but years behind.

The only company using LIDAR that stands a chance is Mobileye. It may be better to use vision for localization, but their HD Maps solution works at a large scale. Moreover, they are developing a vision only system in tandem to their LIDAR system. Publicly they say this is to build two complimentary systems that work together, but it could be that internally they feel like they should hedge against LIDAR being a dead-end, or that they already see the writing on the wall and have already shifted most of their focus to the vision only system. Mobileye also makes their own hardware chip that's about as close to Tesla's as can be (one to two years behind), but the crucial ingredient that Mobileye is missing is large scale real world testing and data gathering. They do not have a fleet like Tesla's, and without that regulatory approval could be a problem, and most worryingly it will take them a very long time to build a vision system powerful enough to support full autonomy. In the words of their own CEO: "I don't believe there's technology that can meet those probabilities of failure. Why do I think this? I know what the probabilities are in ADAS, and we are the leading company in providing these.".

So that leaves the companies not pursuing LIDAR. Can any of them hope to compete with Tesla? Comma.ai to be frank does not seem to have their stuff together, so I don't think they will. Pronto.ai? Maybe, but are they really going to find enough trucking companies willing to pay their 'deeply discounted price' of $4,999 per truck to build a meaningful fleet? That seems unlikely.

Therefore, in my eyes it appears very possible that Tesla will monopolize autonomy.

Putting Tesla's lead in hardware aside, how do you see any other company solving autonomy before Tesla or creating a better autonomy system than Tesla, if all of Tesla's competitors combined only have a fraction of the data Tesla has access to. And even if a competitor could develop a better system faster, how do you see this competitor gaining regulatory approval? Tesla is the only company with a clear cut way to gain regulatory approval in my eyes.
 
Dilemma, dilemma. What to do? Getting a MCU2 for my Model X or two TSLA shares which is about the same price (tax included). And no, can’t do both

keep the mcu1 and the bonus FM radio that you have for now, buy the shares.

if you find you can’t live without mcu2 sell 1 share ( or a fractional if you can) - down the road after appreciation and buy your mcu2 then ( or who knows MCU3 in a couple of years - after the new interior redesign )?
 
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How many times is GM gonna pull this *sugar*. Didn't we have a similar reveal a few mths back with Mary Barra a few mths back.

No.

Barra had EV day where they revealed their Ultium battery pack and architecture and plans to build a 30 GWh(with option to expand) Gigafactory in Lordstown Ohio.

They also said they would have 11 BEVs from 50 kWh to 200 kWh.

This is the Lyric Reveal.

Tesla had Autonomy Day will have Battery Day as well as reveals and launches for individual Models.
 
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I feel like you don't have a good understanding of this space. I'd suggest reading the Autonomy section of this blog I wrote.

Here's an excerpt summing up Tesla's position:



Putting Tesla's lead in hardware aside, how do you see any other company solving autonomy before Tesla or creating a better autonomy system than Tesla, if all of Tesla's competitors combined only have a fraction of the data Tesla has access to. And even if a competitor could develop a better system faster, how do you see this competitor gaining regulatory approval? Tesla is the only company with a clear cut way to gain regulatory approval in my eyes.

I have always been convinced that actuarial science would drive regulatory approval. Autonomous vehicles will create the perfect insurance customer. Reliable revenue streams from maximum safety and minimal risk. The insurance industry itself, will drive regulatory acceptance. Tesla’s billions of miles of verifiable data will build an uncrossable moat.
 
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Dunno if this is true or not but.....one more reason to love Elon:

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Could we discuss likely scenarios for S&P inclusion?

We can expect the various players to look after their own interests. The behavior of one party may have an effect on another party.

Once the announcement is there, sellers instantly want more for their chairs. Preferably the most. A squeeze is what they will like best. they will want to sell at the peak.

MMs will prefer to have multiple peaks. They know when they manipulate so they know that the SP going down is their own doing. They will scare sellers who think it is the peak to jump ship.

I would expect index funds to do dollar cost averaging. They could take advantage of an induced price drop, but if they are too eager there isn’t much of a price drop. So, I expect them to stick to their strategy.

this allows the MMs to allow the price to go up again. Now, will they let the peak price go higher than the previous peak? I’d think they would make the second peak lower and the third peak higher than the first one. The second peak is to shake out those that gambled that the first peak would be higher and Now have an opportunity to still make a nice profit. The third one to shake out the stubborn sellers that can pride themselves in getting a bit more out of it.

But what do I know.
 
I wonder what will happen once Q3 is finished and Tesla posts their first profit ex-credits, because for the first time ever they will have had 2 factories both operating at full capacity. And then in less than 2 years, they will have doubled the number of factories to 4.

But I guess this is falling into the trap of "Tesla is a CAR COMPANY and should be VALUED LIKE ONE!" though, so that's probably the next goalpost movement that's coming up.

I wonder what my TSLA will be worth once Tesla is getting revenues from 4 factories. Hopefully a little more, my portfolio is not quite at the stage where I can think about retiring yet so maybe a little more share price appreciation would help me out. ;)
 
I have always been convinced that actuarial science would drive regulatory approval. Autonomous vehicles will create the perfect insurance customer. Reliable revenue streams from maximum safety and minimal risk. The insurance industry itself, will drive regulatory acceptance. Tesla’s billions of miles of verifiable data will build an uncrossable moat.
It is interesting to contemplate the, ah, terminal case for auto insurers wherein there are a vanishingly small number of accidents due to advances in autonomy.