Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[MC3OZ]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

That is how I see things.

I also wonder if US exchanges have "reserve funds" to cover a brokers/market makers not being able to meet their obligations...

My memory is each broker had to lodge funds with the exchange to cover a default, these were part of a pool of reserve funds invested by the exchange. The accumulated earnings on the funds can be large...IMO they "should be" quarantined and part of the reserve....

So if brokers / market makers are not doing the right thing going bankrupt is a real possibility, if they are covering long running naked shorts at today's share price..

If they don't deliver, being sued by the customer, and jail time is a possible outcome. as I think there is a strong argument that selling someone fabricated shares with no intention to deliver is fraud.

This brings me back to my earlier contention, long running naked shorts are very high risk, very low reward, if they have done that, it is the "bone-headed play of the century".

I can't wait to the dust settles on this, I assume everyone should get their shares in the next day or 2. the market will settle and the heat will go out of the argument ... or a large market maker will go bust, in that case I hope there is an adequate reserve fund. And I also hope someone gets jail time.

 

[Buckminster]

I can confirm I'm weird....

Not anymore.

Rich + weird = eccentric

 

[Artful Dodger]

FYI I just called Deutsche Bank.
They said split was yesterday, payment will be tomorrow on Sept 2nd.
So if you don't have your shares yet, it should be tomorrow.

It's important to not that dividend shares sent from the Transfer Agent, Computershare Trust Company, DO NOT have a 2-Day Settlement provision (New SEC Settlement Mandate—T+2 effective March 2017)

However, TSLA shares bought on the open Market on Mon, Aug 29 will only be settled by Wed, Sep 02 and therefore unavailable for transfer until then.

This is strong evidence that this Broker (Deutsche Bank) does not yet have sufficient shares available to make all it's Beneficiary Owners whole.

 

[Buckminster]

Not anymore.

Rich + weird = eccentric

Or just rich....

 

[Quesder]

I bought my PPO Gold from Blue Shield California as an individual (I dont have a job, not through a company based plan) and it costs 1.9k per month for my wife, myself and my son (4 year old). I am 34 and no big medical history. It is about 20% of our family spending every month.

Man, didn’t realize it is so expensive. Looks like even if I make a million on TSLA, I still better keep my job and company group insurance.

 

[Green Pete]

this is going to be an interesting month

 

[MABMAB]

Frankfurt moving back up

 

[EVortex]

It's important to not that dividend shares sent from the Transfer Agent, Computershare Trust Company, DO NOT have a 2-Day Settlement provision (New SEC Settlement Mandate—T+2 effective March 2017)

However, TSLA shares bought on the open Market on Mon, Aug 29 will only be settled by Wed, Sep 02 and therefore unavailable for transfer until then.

This is strong evidence that this Broker (Deutsche Bank) does not yet have sufficient shares available to make all it's Beneficiary Owners whole.

If enough affected customers complain to regulators then there can be some level of accountability through inquiry or investigation. If nobody complains then regulators won’t have anything to examine. A deep financial audit might also uncover these types of deficiencies, but the auditors usually need to be alerted to something specific for this level of review.

 

[wipster]

Over 540 US in Berlin and now it's bedtime! See you about 9ish... maybe...

 

[FrankSG]

Frankfurt moving back up

Yeah, if anybody is having ticker withdrawal symptoms, the German ticker is pretty interesting too these days:

 

[Tslynk67]

And it's just a coincidence that RBC had a $200 price tgt on TSLA until literally weeks ago, and RBC Analyst Joseph Spak wastes his Conference Call time asking questions which were fully answered in the Earnings Letter.

Certain large Cdn Brokers had all dividend shares fully in place since Saturday a.m. Aug 29, 2020 and the correct SP and Acct Balances as of Monday, Aug 31, 2020.

Word.

Anyone know if the same issues are occuring with the AAPL split? Sure it's a straight "split" and not a "stock dividend", but just wondering?

And there were "stock dividends" in the past, did these suffer too??

 

[Artful Dodger]

This is similar to a few weeks ago, when you concluded based off of a quickly rising stock price that naked shorts must be getting screwed over by the stock dividend.

What I recall from that discussion is that I suggested you do your own research to discover the basis for the 13-day reporting period for 'Fail-to-Deliver' reports.

After a brief search, you reported you were unable to locate any such information. Here is the result of 14 seconds worth of Googling:

Time limit for failed to deliver reports - Google Search

The 1st search result returned is this:

Fail Definition | Investopedia.com

"The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) publishes a "Fails-to-Deliver" report twice per month containing information on transactions that failed.

An Example of a Fail to Pay Fail to Deliver

"Failures to deliver can occur when a short sale isn't properly secured or borrowed prior to the sale taking the place. Assume a trader shorts Company XYZ, but the broker didn't make sure they actually had borrowed the shares.

"To short, there must also be a buyer buying the shares. The buyer then expects delivery of those shares. But if the shares haven't been borrowed, then there are no shares to give the buyer. The seller can't deliver. This is a short fail."​

So what happens is that all fails-to-deliver events are reported twice per month by the SEC in a format which strips information about individual transactions, buyer and seller identity, and brokers involved from the Reports.

This is where the 13 day limit for FTDs comes from, since there are no calendar months where 2 reports could be issued which are both at least 13 since the previous report.

hth.

 

[Green Pete]

is there a point where Tesla gets to large that just between elon + institutional shareholds there is not enough additional float for the indexes to buy what they would need to buy when s and p inclusion happens?

I am a strong believer in tesla but this is starting to feel like something very crazy is going on.

 

[Tslynk67]

FYI I just called Deutsche Bank.
They said split was yesterday, payment will be tomorrow on Sept 2nd.
So if you don't have your shares yet, it should be tomorrow.

By some coincidence, also historically bearish on $TSLA and a supporter of the FFuel industry

 

[Mo City]

NASDAQ futures are up 0.91% which does not happen often. Obviously this would suggest a strong opening in a few hours.

Nighty night unless I'm unable to doze off prior to pre-market in 25 mins.

 

[CorneliusXX]

is there a point where Tesla gets to large that just between elon + institutional shareholds there is not enough additional float for the indexes to buy what they would need to buy when s and p inclusion happens?

I am a strong believer in tesla but this is starting to feel like something very crazy is going on.

That's @Fact Checking's theory of infinity squeeze.

I also thought it was unlikely at the time but this amazing rally certainly makes it feel like more is going on than just a revaluation by the market.

Lately there's been chatter around delta hedging volume basically forcing the price up because so many calls are being created.

Perhaps it's a combo of the two - tight supply due to high conviction owners exacerbated by high demand from delta hedgers and index funds buying in. The only mechanism to resolve the problem is for the price to go up until fewer people want to buy calls or the prize is too tempting for high conviction owners not to let go of the stock.

When the high conviction owners think Tesla will be worth a couple of Trillion or more in 5-10 years then the price has to go way up now for the owners to give up the future growth.

 

[Artful Dodger]

is there a point where Tesla gets to large that just between elon + institutional shareholds there is not enough additional float for the indexes to buy what they would need to buy when s and p inclusion happens?

I am a strong believer in tesla but this is starting to feel like something very crazy is going on.

Institutional Shareholders are deemed part of the float. That's how ARK Invest swing trades.

 

[FrankSG]

What I recall from that discussion is that I suggested you do your own research to discover the basis for the 13-day reporting period for 'Fail-to-Deliver' reports.

After a brief search, you reported you were unable to locate any such information. Here is the result of 14 seconds worth of Googling:

Time limit for failed to deliver reports - Google Search

The 1st search result returned is this:

Fail Definition | Investopedia.com

"The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) publishes a "Fails-to-Deliver" report twice per month containing information on transactions that failed.

An Example of a Fail to Pay Fail to Deliver

"Failures to deliver can occur when a short sale isn't properly secured or borrowed prior to the sale taking the place. Assume a trader shorts Company XYZ, but the broker didn't make sure they actually had borrowed the shares.

"To short, there must also be a buyer buying the shares. The buyer then expects delivery of those shares. But if the shares haven't been borrowed, then there are no shares to give the buyer. The seller can't deliver. This is a short fail."​

So what happens is that all fails-to-deliver events are reported twice per month by the SEC in a format which strips information about individual transactions, buyer and seller identity, and brokers involved from the Reports.

This is where the 13 day limit for FTDs comes from, since there are no calendar months where 2 reports could be issued which are both at least 13 since the previous report.

hth.

I'm aware of the SEC's FTD reports, but I am unsure where you are getting the 13 day limit from. Besides, I don't see why this matters.

Anyway, seems like we're talking past each other. I don't disagree with you that there's a very good chance there's illegal naked short selling going on, but I disagree with:

• Big stock price rally means naked shorts are getting screwed by stock split
• Some brokers not having updated share numbers yet means they are naked short their clients' assets

Not to say there are definitely no brokers naked short their clients' TSLA and/or other assets, but I disagree with the theories you present without much evidence to back them up.

 

[StealthP3D]

Do you have any evidence to back up this theory? It's a pretty wild claim to say that the reason extra shares haven't shown up in accounts at some brokers yet is because these brokers were naked short their clients' assets. This is a really wild theory, that I'm extremely skeptical of.

Frank, I've lost a lot of respect for you for pushing the theory that the brokerage houses have suddenly become so grossly incompetent they can't get the shares to their rightful owners even when given 10 days to do so and with no evidence to back up your theory (other than taking them at their word). Do you really think they would tell you the truth if their behavior was fraudulent? It's a pretty wild claim that they somehow managed to properly deliver the shares for so for many decades (and in only 7 days in almost all cases) and now they can't seem to get-er-done. Maybe COVID-19 has addled their brains, LOL!

There is a good reason for the 7 days between the split and the deadline for the delivery of shares.

Hint: It's because history has shown that's plenty of time for the required book-keeping. This is what brokers do for a living. It's their primary job. Stock splits are not an unusual occurrence. They are normal.

 

[StealthP3D]

FYI I just called Deutsche Bank.
They said split was yesterday, payment will be tomorrow on Sept 2nd.
So if you don't have your shares yet, it should be tomorrow.

The shares were supposed to have been transferred last week. Yesterday was simply the first day of trading at post-split prices.