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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Realized that IF TSLA keeps going up until Dec 21 at the same rate it has since S&P announcement, it will have more than doubled :eek:. Just saying. Not advice.
That'd be SP of about $1,117.14 on December 21 if my guzzintas and take away's are correct. I think this might actually happen.

Thank you for that perspective, @hobbes .
 
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You’re not going to tell us what it is??
Nope.

Cause then there would have 10 posts about how unnecessary that was and that money would have been worth 10x in a few years. I totally agree so I'm saving everyone from that.

I live on $2000 a month and haven't spent extra on anything despite having made 20x my yearly income in 18 months. Finally just said eff it and did it.

My main worry now is that Elons been a little optimistic about the Mars timeline. Need not only for the rockets to start going there but also the price to come down before I get to old.
 
Here is a great FSD video with the latest release 2020.44.15.3. This one should hopefully lead us to US wide release.

One of the best videos with very tricky situations


Thanks for the link, very impressive decision-making by FSD, and also a very good presentation by the blogger, AI Driver. :D

Here's a video showing the new FSD Beta release 5 by James Locke (posted just 1-hour ago):

"Model 3 - Beta FSD - Unedited full drive around Santa Clarita - 2020.44.15.3 - 26 Nov 2020" | (45 min)


Cheers!
 
You know that EVs are starting to turn the corner when you start seeing ads like this during football games...


Wow! Great commercial, I bet Elon had a big smile on his face when he heard that Ford is shifting to make their most iconic vehicles electric....only 5 years too late.

"To use 100% renewable energy across all global manufacturing plants by 2035".. very bold of them to think they will still be around in 15 years :D
 
Anyone thinking of selling their TSLA shares at $600 or $800 or $1000 should watch this video. The nuclear bomb that will destroy the auto industry as we know it is coming much sooner than most people expect, and your company is gonna unleash it.
Way back in early 2013, after we had been driving our 2012 Model S for a month or two, I was gushing about the car on this forum, 'best car I've ever owned, etc.'. Someone remarked, 'You realize you own the WORST version of the Model S Tesla is ever going to make.' Bingo, pushed more chips into the center of the table. So, with FSD, from today forward this is the WORST version of FSD that anyone is going to drive. Let those parallel realizations, separated by about 9 years, sink in.
 
Way back in early 2013, after we had been driving our 2012 Model S for a month or two, I was gushing about the car on this forum, 'best car I've ever owned, etc.'. Someone remarked, 'You realize you own the WORST version of the Model S Tesla is ever going to make.' Bingo, pushed more chips into the center of the table. So, with FSD, from today forward this is the WORST version of FSD that anyone is going to drive. Let those parallel realizations, separated by about 9 years, sink in.
Hey! I'm pretty sure that was me! But whether or no, it is indeed apposite wrt FSD. Good call.
 
Way back in early 2013, after we had been driving our 2012 Model S for a month or two, I was gushing about the car on this forum, 'best car I've ever owned, etc.'. Someone remarked, 'You realize you own the WORST version of the Model S Tesla is ever going to make.' Bingo, pushed more chips into the center of the table. So, with FSD, from today forward this is the WORST version of FSD that anyone is going to drive. Let those parallel realizations, separated by about 9 years, sink in.

True, and equivalent progress will not require equivalent time. All the stunning improvements in the FSD rewrite occurred in 5 weeks, since the first version was released.
Elon Musk: Tesla Self-Driving Beta Testing Starts Tonight

And Dojo is still to come for training the software. Progress will not only continue, but accelerate.

Ford will not be around in 15 years. I doubt they have 5.
 
The progress from first FSD beta to current FSD beta has been incredible. Sure it has mainly been bug fixes, but it seems that the neural network is also improving. If this keeps going then we will very rapidly approach 99.9999%. At some point bugfixes will slow and it will be more a grind of uncommon situations. But at that point hundred thousands cars will be using the 4D network in shadow mode and in active mode with the 1000x faster labelling and dojo I expect the data engine to iterate even faster than it did with the old 2.5D system, for example how well stop lights improve, how well auto lane change improved etc.

I think the recent bull run is not so much S&P but instead it is the slow realization that Tesla FSD is real, that take rate will be high, that robotaxi is still a very real possibility. Toyota, VW, BMW, Volvo etc must be pretty worried, what Tesla are doing in release to customers is far beyond what they are doing in development, while Tesla has the complete infrastructure to rapidly improve it. They still don’t have OTA, data upload, data enginee, HW3 equivalent hardware, long range EV, supercharging network, Dojo etc. And Tesla are running ahead full speed while they are struggling to catch up to where Tesla was 3 years ago.

At some point Tesla should get the credit they deserve for their entire software stack. It was not easy and the competition could not do what Tesla did. It was a great team effort doing something incredible very fast while being it total chaos having to pull manpower to get Model 3 ramp issues fixes, having to recreate entire Mobileye flagship product after the partnership failed etc before they finally are in the clear and can focus on what they believe is the long term solution. I have said it before, but it must be some much easier to develop new features to the current software/hardware stack than it was a few years ago or how it is to develop the same new feature to the competition’s software/hardware stack. Expect to see concrete solid progress from here!
 
Your post, in this context, makes this concept of sovereign right crystal clear, thanks.

It’s obvious when you think about it, that those short sellers are trying to appropriate the right to issue shares, false shares as you say, when that is actually exclusively Tesla’s right.

Among his very balanced characteristics, this really highlights what Musk dislikes so much about the short sellers
Musk was bullied greatly as a kid. He hates bullies. When you have gone through that trauma it’s formative in your personality. I can relate.
 
You all who have been calling for the price spike after S&P announcement have been right.

But I can't help the nagging feeling that it's too easy, too logical. If everyone KNOWS the price has to go up over the next several weeks, doesn't that in and of itself indicate we are missing something? While the number crunching and logic laid out here make perfect sense to me, one thing I do know is the stock market acts very irrationally at times, often zigging when we expect it to zag.

@TheTalkingMule makes sense to 'keep it rational.' While I am envious of those of you who have leveraged your position with options and are making a killing, I am happy to play along with my toes dipped in the water and just stay long shares.
Elon’s clearly thinking about TMC Teslanaires with this celebratory gesture :

Tesla to launch 'special colors' for the new Roadster electric supercar - Electrek
That post did it for me, I’m getting one! I’ll keep my 911, but wow Roadster, I’m sold. And I only need to sell a few shares when it comes out to pay for it! Thanks for posting!
 
Yes, absolutely. I have some Jan23 550c that increased yesterday about 1.5% while the actual stock increased more than 3%. :mad: WTF. I’m selling those and rolling to something else. Edit: I just figured out why this makes some sense. The option is leveraged about 2:1, so it works out.
The delta of the option tells you how it moves in relation to the stock. So at .71 delta if you are 2:1 leveraged you are getting 1.4x if you had just bought the stock.
 
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Anyone thinking of selling their TSLA shares at $600 or $800 or $1000 should watch this video. The nuclear bomb that will destroy the auto industry as we know it is coming much sooner than most people expect, and your company is gonna unleash it.
Wow, the improvement rate is incredible.
Just drove the last 2 days with FSD in the snow in Montreal highways in the worst conditions and it behaves really great. Not perfect when the road are snowy but I see robotaxis happening within next 2 years.

The stock price will go insane.

That’s a 10T market equity shift.
 
You all who have been calling for the price spike after S&P announcement have been right.

But I can't help the nagging feeling that it's too easy, too logical. If everyone KNOWS the price has to go up over the next several weeks, doesn't that in and of itself indicate we are missing something? While the number crunching and logic laid out here make perfect sense to me, one thing I do know is the stock market acts very irrationally at times, often zigging when we expect it to zag.

@TheTalkingMule makes sense to 'keep it rational.' While I am envious of those of you who have leveraged your position with options and are making a killing, I am happy to play along with my toes dipped in the water and just stay long shares.
I agree 100%. In my 50+ years of investing I have never witnessed any near-future event that is so obviously predictable that actual happened as expected. The thieves on Wall Street, it seems, will always come up with a strategy to make sure that they profit on preventing that expected event from happening. However, I've got to say that I can't see anything that they could do. The obvious thing would be to naked short all those shares to the S&P buyers but the prospect of another split, forcing them to once again produce shares that don't exist would destroy them. I am not in a position to play the short term game but, were it 20 years ago, I'd be all over it. Not advice.
 
Sure, but TSLA does not have that many doublings left, if you start from a small sum. No matter how bullish you are. I too have a smaller account, so I'm bullish on TSLA, but even at $4T market cap, I won't be able to retire on it. Womp womp.

Russ' $TSLA "Base", "Bear", "Best", and "Elon's 20M units" Share Price Predictions for 12/31/2030

I think @Robocop makes an important point. $AAPL market cap is ~$2T today. If you assume that $TSLA continues to be the dominant force in a growing EV market profit-wise (like Apple over Android), with Solar/Battery/HVAC(?) compounded growth, Tesla Network becomes reality, high-profit margin Tesla App Store created, etc., then it is reasonable that $TSLA might have a $4T market cap by 12/31/2030. Here's why:

Its market cap today is $544B. That would be an average CAGR (Compound Annual Growth Rate) of "only" 22% per annum in the share price. I think Tesla's sales will easily grow at a CAGR of 22% or more for the next ten years. In the last 4 quarters, Tesla sold 430K vehicles. When I apply 22% CAGR to that, it will sell 3.14M vehicles in 2030. Compare that to 77.5M worldwide sales in 2019. It's only a 4% market share! This is my very conservative "base case" for 2030, $4,200 per share. I assign it only 40% probability because based upon history I don't see the incumbents or the newcomers threatening Tesla's EV dominance this decade.

Now, let's be very pessimistic and assume that $TSLA is in a +100% S&P 500 inclusion, FOMO, and short squeeze bubble right now. When you slice 1/2 off the market cap you get $272B. (A large 2021-22 macro decline could also happen if the economy stagnates in recession after covid-19, unlike Wall Street's current rosy outlook post-covid.) Starting down at $272B applying 22% CAGR we get a $1.98T market cap in 2030 (where $AAPL is today). Still not bad for HODLERs since it is a market-beating 13.8% CAGR from today's $574/share to $2,090. That is my "bear case" for 2030. I assign it 10% because $TSLA could be in a bubble, a worldwide recession or very slow economic recovery could happen post-Covid, or Volkswagen could surprise us in the EV market after throwing so much capital at it.

Personally, I am extremely bullish and this is my "best case". Statista.com states Toyota had the leading global automotive market share of 10.24% in 2019. I'm going to give Tesla a 12% market share in 2030 for several reasons most of you already know so I won't discuss them here. Automotive Analyst Daniel Harrison predicts 120M global automotive units will be sold in 2030. Based on his forecast, Tesla's share will be 14,400,000. That is a CAGR in units of 42% average per year. Applying 42% CAGR to the shares brings us to $19,133 at the end of 2030! I assign this prediction a 40% probability. [1]

Finally, Elon has stated his ambitious goal is to produce 20M units per year by 2030. That would be a 16.67% market share of the forecasted 120M global market in 2030. Units CAGR is 47%. Applying that to our shares takes them to $27,045 at the end of 2030! This number is an upper limit for EV's because obviously $TSLA cannot grow at 47% indefinitely or its sales would exceed the market. I assign this scenario a 10% probability (hope I'm wrong!) because Elon historically has been overly optimistic.

We should expect $TSLA share price CAGR to decrease after a decade because of the law of large numbers: "In a financial context, the law of large numbers indicates that a large entity which is growing rapidly cannot maintain that growth pace forever." - Investopedia.com

Now, like Ark Investments did, I'll combine my weighted probabilities predictions of the price on 12/31/2030:

10% * $ 2,090 [Bear] = $ 209
40% * $ 4,200 [Base] = $1,680
40% * $19,133 [Best] = $7,653
10% * $27,045 [Elon] = $2,704


I predict the 12/31/2030 share price will be $12,246 which is an average CAGR of 35.8%.

It would be an interesting exercise if others posted their 2030 "bear", "base", and "best" case scenarios (with their derivation) for 12/31/2030 by 1/1/2021 [2]. Then we can HOLDR and see who came closest a decade from now! If my $19,133 "best case" comes true I will buy ALL of you a gourmet lunch (who fly in on your private electric jets :D) to attend the 2031 Tesla Annual Stockholders Meeting!

Russ

[1] I just did my personal math and it blows my mind because my family would be in the low nine figures if my "best case" happens... This is similar to what happened to long-term Berkshire Hathaway HOLDRS that bet on Warren Buffet since his early days. Perhaps Tesla will have to rent Chase Center in SF for the Annual Shareholders Meetings!

[2] I plan to update mine after 12/21/20.