This. And you don't even care about the price. You make your money from fees the people buying into the fund pay you.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
This. And you don't even care about the price. You make your money from fees the people buying into the fund pay you.
Yes, I woke up thinking about the scale of private placements, including between funds in the same family, e.g., Vanguard?
I suspect the politicians (in their finite wisdom) are talking about 500k charging outlets (analogous to 500k gas pumps). Averaging out, that would come to 50k "facilities" with 10 charging positions each. Not unreasonable
Runarbt
Active Member
Any guesses:
Will any index funds just buy at open/at first dip "to get it over with"?
I do hope we get some action before friday close, or next week..
?
I am extremely boored at the moment.
Will any index funds just buy at open/at first dip "to get it over with"?
I do hope we get some action before friday close, or next week..
?I am extremely boored at the moment.
Nothing would surprise me but I'm coming to believe the S&P index fund managers just don't give a rip. They're going to do their job on Friday and buy the shares they need to buy.
Runarbt
Active Member
Then I guess MM job next days is to kill IV, close out as many calls as possible - bunker up and just weather the storm.
Why can you not exercise your June 22s now? No tax consequences at exercise, just resets the clock on long term gains on the stock.Correct. Market orders not executed AH and (in my case can only enter an AH order 15 minutes after main close).
Likewise, note that options cannot be traded outside main market, at least I don't have this possibility.
And my final constraint is that I cannot exercise options early (for example I would love to exercise my June 2022 $250's now and then sell calls against them, but I cannot
I don't know if these are general rules, or broker-specific in some cases.
Everyone, quick, start thinking and agreeing that this is what will happen. And TSLA will not rise any higher this week!
Because as everyone knows, $TSLA will do the exact opposite of what majority think it will do.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Not at all.
Their goal is to get their shares at exactly the market price as close to inclusion date as possible.
Their entire purpose is to match the performance of the index, not beat it.
So the earlier ahead of inclusion they buy (and the earlier they sell other stuff to buy it) the larger their risk of index error.
That's why historically inclusion buying is almost always done at close the day before inclusion.
Some speculated they'd start earlier due to the amounts but we've yet to see evidence of it.
Which again would be bad for index error. Plus at least some explicitly can not trade derivatives like options per their own prospectus (SPY for example)- in part exactly because it leads to index error.
Runarbt
Active Member
Ah.. yes.
So all the action we see, is just MM milking the option buyers.. I guess you are correct.
How to best profit from this.. I should have sold options instead of buying I guess. :-D
Edit:
Then, we can assume there wont be a SP dip after friday, not until wednesday next week. Any dip should be bought by the index funds, as they can buy and push SP up to fridays close, and get them shares at the correct price.
On the flip side some big fish could come in a buy a lot of calls on Thursday evening and mess with the MM’s plans.
If there are no big buyers today I expect our daily MMD so they can sell more puts and help offset any upside volatility for Friday.
I don’t know what the end game is but it cannot be this straightforward.
IMO some people are having a hard time grasping this. Like you said these fund managers don't care one bit what the price is, as long as their fund tracks the S&P500 then they are doing their job. They have no incentive to get creative and try to game the system through sneaky buying, transferring funds, or options schemes. As investors we are focused on beating the market and making the highest gains as possible, but fund managers are not investors.
Any reason why index funds wouldn’t use a dark pool trade the get their shares without spiking the market price? Between dark pools, prearranged trades, exercising calls, and short selling theres lots of ways the stock might stay flat this week.
Dark pool trades have to be reported just like any other trades. The market will know about them at least. Iirc from when I did some research into this, they have to be reported to the tape within 8 seconds or something like that. Could be wrong about that number, but I'm pretty sure I remember dark pool trades having to be reported fairly quickly.
I guess there are a lot of ways to buy 120 million shares of a stock and keep it flat.
Actually, I can think of only one way: the assorted parties you mentioned plus longs selling agree to part with 120 million shares at said flat price.
Balanced and fairly positive article about Energy Sec-designate Granholm, former governor of Michigan, and her views on electric cars and renewables.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/12/15/granholm-energy-secretary-biden/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/12/15/granholm-energy-secretary-biden/
tl;dr version for people on the other side of the paywall?
Tremendous amounts of capping pre-market to get and try to keep TSLA down at the open. Very obvious when one looks at Level II trades - very large sell order at $631pushed the price down quickly a moment ago.
My broker doesn’t allow it - although I’m going to call them to 2x check as I could make a tidy sum selling covered calls on 2000 shares...
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