Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[JamesBrown]

This morn my pittance of a 401K transfer to Roth completed. I bought 1 share at $849.

Which resulted in an immediate SP drop to 838, in case anyone buying that dip wanted to thank me.

Fidelity's Best Investors Are Dead | The Conservative Income Investor

Dont worry about the day to day changes. Buy some shares and forget your password.

 

[JamesBrown]

Well, there is a bill before the Texas legislature to tax any electricity not produced by gas. Pretty much an admission that fossil fuels are no longer economically viable.

Georgia already passed a law taxing EV owners for not buying gasoline. No matter how the energy sector changes, government will find ways to get their cut of it.

 

[boonedocks]

Georgia already passed a law taxing EV owners for not buying gasoline. No matter how the energy sector changes, government will find ways to get their cut of it.

Gas tax is where the majority of the road works $$$ comes from the GA. I am okay with it as the EV tax is far FAR less than gas tax I used to pay based on my daily commute ~100 miles a day.

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

Georgia already passed a law taxing EV owners for not buying gasoline. No matter how the energy sector changes, government will find ways to get their cut of it.

Well, hopefully they will use some of that for the roads or we better hope Elon change his mind about flying cars.

 

[willow_hiller]

Expect Tesla's solar margins to go up in the near future due to more vertical integration. Confirmation from a Tesla advisor that new installations will use a Tesla branded inverter instead of third party (SolarEdge/Delta): Solar advice

My tesla advisor says they are going to be using new "tesla branded" string inverters, says they are not going to be using solar edge or delta anymore.

 

[Fobble]

Well, hopefully they will use some of that for the roads or we better hope Elon change his mind about flying cars.

The governments will then be more creative to introduce air oxygen taxes for the flying cars ....

 

[2daMoon]

Georgia already passed a law taxing EV owners for not buying gasoline. No matter how the energy sector changes, government will find ways to get their cut of it.

Well, at least a tax on EVs make some semblance of rational sense as most road maintenance and improvement funding comes from fuel taxes. I've been expecting something like this to happen to resolve the fact that EVs probably aren't paying a fair share toward the roads they also use. With any increase in EV presence and a decline in ICE presence this would otherwise result in a road funding problem, long term.

The Texas tax on any electricity produced, and which the Big Oil Lobby won't directly profit from, can hardly make the same claim to any sort of rationality being behind the legislation. (this assessment, from a Native Texan)

 

[Knightshade]

Gas tax is where the majority of the road works $$$ comes from the GA. I am okay with it as the EV tax is far FAR less than gas tax I used to pay comment ~100 miles a day.

Same in NC.

The EV registration tax is to try and make up for lost gas tax revenue that goes to roadwork budget.... it's still less than I paid in fuel taxes (well, it is with pre-covid miles driven, might not be right now...)

But I'd expect to see a lot more of this in various states- the road $ has to come from somewhere, and there'll be less and less of it over time from gasoline tax.

 

[boonedocks]

Well, at least a tax on EVs make some semblance of rational sense as most road maintenance and improvement funding comes from fuel taxes. I've been expecting something like this to happen to resolve the fact that EVs probably aren't paying a fair share toward the roads they also use. With any increase in EV presence and a decline in ICE presence this would otherwise result in a road funding problem, long term.

The Texas tax on any electricity produced, and which the Big Oil Lobby won't directly profit from, can hardly make the same claim to any sort of rationality being behind the legislation. (this assessment, from a Native Texan)

My only fear is that they find some way to charge by the mile and not just a fixed annual fee. For some of us high mileage daily commuters it would be a game changer to HAVE TO consider high MPG ice cars again.

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

I totally agree taxes to support the roads have to come from somewhere. Possibly in some areas you are already paying as much in the form of electricity taxes when you charge the EV. It would be up to the politicians to move some of that tax to the road budget as more and more comes from EVs. This would probably be the best way although there would have to be some way to make sure those charging from private solar also pay their share.

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

My only fear is that they find some way to charge by the mile and not just a fixed annual fee. For some of us high mileage daily commuters it would be a game changer to HAVE TO consider high MPG ice cars again.

Well if you don't charge per mile then those driving very little will find it much harder to change to EVs. The gas tax works out like it's per mile doesn't it?

 

[boonedocks]

Well if you don't charge per mile then those driving very little will find it much harder to change to EVs. The gas tax works out like it's per mile doesn't it?

Not if it is based on miles and charged at a per gallon rate of a 12mpg ice car which a sketchy politician in front of a bunch old Bubbas making the tax laws would / could probably happen .

 

[Tslynk67]

Ahh, so that's why we're all millionaires....

Actually it's the converse - many of us are Teslanaires despite record levels of shorting, and when they have to cover those positions, some more people around here will be joining the club.

 

[zzziii]

Link to Twitter thread by Tesla Facts

 

[2daMoon]

Not if it is based on miles and charged at a per gallon rate of a 12mpg ice car which a sketchy politician in front of a bunch old Bubbas making the tax laws would / could probably happen .

The most appropriate way would be to tax based on miles of use per car. Easy enough with a smart car like a Tesla automating the reporting. More difficult for older ICE cars that would require annual auditing of the odometer reading.

 

[Bouboule]

Mobileye built the silicon for Autopilot 1 for Tesla. They do have some experience in this field based upon that.

What they lack are the billions of miles of real driving data that Tesla has. That is going to take them a long time to build up.

Actually, it surprised me, in the presentation they talked about 8M daily kilometers at the moment across 6 OEMs. So roughly 3 Billions kms per year and ramping up quickly. I don't know the exact number for Tesla, but probably not more than 10X Mobileye's.
Mobileye plans on having 1Billion kms worth of data daily by 2024. Not sure Tesla could match that.

 

[capster]

"I shorted Tesla at $833.43"

thehobbyinvestorthatcould.com/i-shorted-tesla-at-833/

edit: Just a clarification, it`s not me that is going short on tesla

Montana Skeptic articulates the bull case pretty well in the comments. I wonder if it’s the same Montana Skeptic?

edit: Wups. I’m informed below by @Runarbt that it’s him and it’s ‘Septic’ in this case.

 

[JamesBrown]

Gas tax is where the majority of the road works $$$ comes from the GA. I am okay with it as the EV tax is far FAR less than gas tax I used to pay based on my daily commute ~100 miles a day.

It is far more than the gas tax I use to pay on my daily commute ~25 miles a day. GA gas tax is one of the lowest in the entire country and the yearly fee is generally more than majority of drivers would pay.
Using an average 25mpg, GA drivers would have to drive more than 16,930 miles per year for them to have the yearly EV fee be less than gas tax.

 

[ZeApelido]

Actually, it surprised me, in the presentation they talked about 8M daily kilometers at the moment across 6 OEMs. So roughly 3 Billions kms per year and ramping up quickly. I don't know the exact number for Tesla, but probably not more than 10X Mobileye's.
Mobileye plans on having 1Billion kms worth of data daily by 2024. Not sure Tesla could match that.

Mobileye has no vehicles on the road with their full sensor suite (even vision only) collecting data. And they will have very little this year.

Lots of miles of sensor data from a single forward camera doesnt count for FSD data.

 

[Yuri_G]

Actually, it surprised me, in the presentation they talked about 8M daily kilometers at the moment across 6 OEMs. So roughly 3 Billions kms per year and ramping up quickly. I don't know the exact number for Tesla, but probably not more than 10X Mobileye's.
Mobileye plans on having 1Billion kms worth of data daily by 2024. Not sure Tesla could match that.

Tesla drops a bunch of new Autopilot data, 3 billion miles and more - Electrek

Tesla is around the same miles on autopilot per day if you guesstimate a rate of 1 billion autopilot miles every 6 months, given they were at a rate of 2 billion miles in under 2 years in April of last year.