Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[ZeApelido]

I have the answer to how many bitcoins Tesla owns.

1.5 billion in BTC

Average BTC prices ~ $35,000

I 100% guarantee Tesla purchased at an average price to $35655.708.

That equals 42069 bitcoins.

 

[buttershrimp]

Seems perfectly logical to me, that the PayPal guy might know a thing or two about facilitating payment. And I’m not in Bitcoin but am I wrong that it’s simply a fixed amount of currency, with increasing demand? I don’t see a controversy?

 

[Pezpunk]

I am super angry about tesla gambling in bitcoin. Sure, this put me into the minority. But what the hell, this is against everything I put my faith into tesla.

1. bitcoin is a super polluter, climate change, remember that, tsla?

2. bitcoin's main usage is money laundry and pure speculation. It has no value as a monetary system due to volatility and no tax based credit system. I always think Elon is a decent guy. But did he think about if bitcoin bubble gone, how many small investors would be in pain?

3. tsla raised large sums of money for capacity expansion. It is a shame it uses investor's money into playing a bubble. And accepting bitcoin as payment? They think their accountants have nothing better to do?

I am deeply shocked and shamed. I just sold my shares. Hope one day Elon fix this problem. I still believe in the climate change cause.

1. i somewhat agree with this point. Investing in bitcoin does seem contradictory to the mission of combating climate change.

2. This second point is completely wrong and based on FUD and misinformation. You should re-evaluate your information sources.

3. This point is pretty ignorant too.

as to selling your shares: emotional decisions are rarely good financial decisions.

 

[traxila]

I say 950 EOW.

 

[Tslynk67]

I'm mad as hell for Tesla buying $BTC, seriously, WTF are they playing at? Everyone knows $DOGE is the future of crypto!

 

[thx1139]

1. i somewhat agree with this point. Investing in bitcoin does seem contradictory to the mission of combating climate change.

2. This second point is completely wrong and based on FUD and misinformation. You should re-evaluate your information sources.

3. This point is pretty ignorant too.

as to selling your shares: emotional decisions are rarely good financial decisions.

Now I dont dabble in Bitcoin. I dont consider it a currency. I consider it a speculative investment.

Now that out of the way, how can something that is virtual (unless I dont understand what Bitcoin is) have anything to do with combating climate change. I have assumed the chatter about mining Bitcoin to just be people joking around.

What am I missing?

 

[X Fan]

WSJ article this morning: Tesla Summoned by Chinese Regulators on Quality Issues

“The State Administration for Market Regulation, China’s top market regulator, said Monday that it had instructed Tesla to abide by Chinese laws and regulations and strengthen internal management to ensure the quality and safety of its products.”

Legit complaint or a Chinese shot across the bow to protect its own car industry and/or reminding Tesla that they hold the cards?

 

[reardencode]

As someone whose invested net worth is split between $TSLA and $BTC ... I'm glad Elon finally started doing the smart thing. Can't hold so much worthless fiat on the balance sheet. Too risky, need more Bitcoin.

 

[HG Wells]

I'm mad as hell for Tesla buying $BTC, seriously, WTF are they playing at? Everyone knows $DOGE is the future of crypto!

I think your right.
Doge up 37% today

 

[Singuy]

WSJ article this morning: Tesla Summoned by Chinese Regulators on Quality Issues

“The State Administration for Market Regulation, China’s top market regulator, said Monday that it had instructed Tesla to abide by Chinese laws and regulations and strengthen internal management to ensure the quality and safety of its products.”

Legit complaint or a Chinese shot across the bow to protect its own car industry and/or reminding Tesla that they hold the cards?

Sounds like what health inspector says to every restaurant they visit.

 

[Pezpunk]

Now I dont dabble in Bitcoin. I dont consider it a currency. I consider it a speculative investment.

Now that out of the way, how can something that is virtual (unless I dont understand what Bitcoin is) have anything to do with combating climate change. I have assumed the chatter about mining Bitcoin to just be people joking around.

What am I missing?

the computational power required to mine bitcoin and maintain the blockchain is enormous. like unfathomably enormous. the energy output dwarfs many real-world nations.

 

[MP3Mike]

If you have 21.000 $TSLA shares - you own, maybe, one of Teslas BTCs.

Assumption -
Tesla shares: 950 million.
BTC: Lets say they bought at $33k ($1.5B), then Tesla has 45.000 BTCs.

You mixing up your decimal and separate characters makes that hard to make sense of...

 

[Rarity]

oh for crying out loud. YES BITCOIN IS DISRUPTIVE. Well done, but that doesn't make it environmentally sustainable does it? Yet again, the bitcoin bulls are determined to paint anybody who disagrees with them as stupid. No cult is as fanatical and insulting as the crypto cult.

I think I agree with you, cliffski. But I think we investors owe Musk a friendly hearing to make his case on BTC and Tesla's part in it.

Musk changed his mind. I'm very curious as to why. Some of his closest friends like Bill Lee have been big into cryptocurrencies since forever. But they haven't convinced him. Until now.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

I know this is not related to this thread but with the Bitcoin thing so prevalent there seems to be some knowledge here that can enlighten me.

I can not figure out how this whole Bitcoin thing works. The explanations online just confuse me more. How does this stuff work? Some argue that it is a threat to the environment. How? I am completely at a loss for how this move by Tesla is either positive or negative...other than I guess you will be able to buy a Tesla with the stuff.

Dan

 

[2daMoon]

What about the 3 barrels of oil it takes to mine one Bitcoin?

Would this oil be used to lubricate the hydro-electric generators that most bitcoin miners locate around in order to take advantage of lower renewable energy costs that help eek out profits from their very, very narrow margins?

 

[canoemore]

the computational power required to mine bitcoin and maintain the blockchain is enormous. like unfathomably enormous. the energy output dwarfs many real-world nations.

Genuine question: how much energy does traditional finance infrastructure consume? Not a question directed solely at you, @Pezpunk, but it does seem like a relevant one to ask in this discussion.

 

[reardencode]

For those concerned about Bitcoin energy usage, bear in mind:

Bitcoin mining treats all energy at fungible. It will use whatever energy is cheapest, so it is up to the rest of us to ensure that the cheapest energy is clean.

In many cases the cheapest energy is energy that would otherwise be wasted. Some miners use natural gas that would otherwise be flared, reducing the overall carbon footprint.

 

[Beltsbear]

Well couldn't we start mining our own coins in the new S and X with the powerful new gaming PC built in?

Technically (with consent) Tesla could mine some type of Crypto on the internal processors. They could keep it all, or pay out a share, but it would be wasteful. Modern mining rigs are purpose built and on a hash rate basis, very efficient. But as a seldomly used feature, Tesla could make the computers purposefully suck up excess power during the rare times when electricity has a negative or zero cost, assuming all batteries that could be charged are full. Tesla could make money doing this, and it could become a part of AutoBidder.

 

[UkNorthampton]

So is gold, and it doesn't mean burning an entire countries electricity requirements to buy some. This is inexcusable. Does tesla care about climate change or not?

I've generally been against bitcoin for energy use reasons.

Some things that changed my mind

1) Adam Dorr/Tony Seba video pointing out that cheapest electricity includes storage and has 3-5 times max capacity of minimum (edit: I did write "today"). Just choose a day when energy is free (UK sometimes goes negative price - even for Octopus Agile domestic customers). Most days there is an abundance, with just a few needing to use up storage almost to depletion

2) International transfers of LARGE amounts might be less energy intensive (even including initial mining) compared to other means (banks, gold, physical notes etc)

3) Autobidder & huge storage batteries - bitcoin used just when it makes sense

 

[Artful Dodger]

Im no fan of BTC either (although I own a little). But if this encourages many more potential customers, maybe it isn’t all bad. And perhaps Tesla can start supplying solar to those large dirty BTC miners. Doubtful though.

A price on carbon emissions solves this issue. It's called a 'price signal', and its what free markets are SUPPOSED to react to.

Price carbon appropriately and electrical generation will transition to renewables. The fact that we haven't done this since 1978 (when it became painfully obvious that carbon emissions are an ongoing problem) is a testament to the ability of large monopolies (Wall St) and Big Carbon (Fossil Fools) to interfere with the free market to their own advantage.

We need a price on carbon. And not just for bitcoin miners.