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Then they should stop. Elon sez: "First of all, I think moats are lame. It's nice sort of quaint in a vestigial way. If your only defense against invading armies is a moat, you will not last long. What matters is the pace of innovation. That is the fundamental determinant of competitiveness."

(one of my all time favorite business quotes)

Supercharging is not a 'moat'! Supercharging isn't meant to compete with other companies' EVs but with gasoline cars! Eventually all EVs will have great charging infrastructure. The purpose of Supercharging is to mitigate the key competitive advantage that gasoline cars have over electric cars over a specific 10-15 year time period between the introduction of EVs and the full buildout of EV infrastructure. By mitigating ICE's advantage in long-distance travel, the Supercharger network serves to advance Tesla's core mission of accelerating the advent of sustainable transport.
I disagreed only because I think many people, in this context Elon also, tend to misconstrue what a moat was ever for. It is factual to state that medieval moats were not the only line fo defense. They were a deterrent and acted to make invasion more difficult. Specifically we have been discussing the role fo Superchargers as a sustainable conpetitive advantage, so the shorthand for such is 'moat'. No sane person will argue that pace of innovation is fundamental. Actually the Supercharger network and it's continuing innovation with faster speeds, urban Superchargers, gigantic installations with amenities and so on is proof of a continuing innovative approach. Rather than quibble about shorthand we should focus on factual demonstrated rapid pace of innovation.

Once we do that we can think of the near-certain advent of Supercharger battery installations themselves acting as wholesale market participants with Autobidder, larger sites with significant solar installations themselves and so on. Tesla has just barely begin that process. Utility licenses already issued are forward indicators.

So, yes, many of us will use the word 'moat' to indication things with rapid continuing innovation that competitors are largely ignoring!
 
So I’m on the beach and I hear two guys talking about Tesla, and I can hear they’re asking some pretty basic questions so I go over to them. One of them has just taken a test drive of the MY and was blown away. He’s confused now, because all he’s known about Tesla is that Musk is a weirdo, the company is a fraud, and he’d run out of range all the time. He’s been fed a diet of FUD for a decade, and now he has to adjust his mindset by the actual reality of the car he has just personally experienced.

As I write this, the guy has now gone over to somebody else to tell him about his test drive. We’ve all seen this play out for years now, but it’s kinda amazing to me that a decade has gone by and most people are still clueless.

Maybe a little advertising would be a good thing. If for no other reason than to convince people not to buy any more ICE cars. If you can’t score an EV now, hold onto your old ICE car a bit longer.

"Thanks for the info, Sancho was it?... BTW this isn't a nude beach"
 
This concept of advertising as being a good thing could be right, but only after Tesla has established the production capacity to meet the demand that advertising would generate. Creating such demand before production can deliver could alienate potential customers that Tesla paid good money to attract.

I have speculated before how it is not inconceivable that Tesla, to some degree, appreciates all the FUD while the factories are gestating as it takes the heat off them in the mean time.

The really wonderful thing about this theory of mine is how the tables may turn should Tesla start throwing advertising dollars at the media and the media then finds an incentive to begin downplaying the FUD against Tesla. It will be like pulling the carpet out from under the feet of ICE and BigOil.

Nobody likes to be lied to, and once consumers begin to embrace how they have been sold a load of hogwash for over a decade they will not be happy with the sources behind it all.
People keep promoting the antiquated notion of 'advertising'. It is a largely antiquated and obsolete concept. In different ways several of us try to explain that, but it keeps cropping up. Tesla has moved quite beyond that.
 
Everyone should do a fly and drive to get their Cybertruck, that’s my plan and make a fun road trip out of the buying experience. Get a tour and a Tesla!
Got called to go back in the office to work in a closed area, so I have to order a new Model Y and do my part for the cause 5-9 weeks out.
agree 100%. My Cybr is my retirement present to myself and am planning to do exactly what you propose 2-3 years from now.
 
I think his extrapolation is spot on.
as he once said: « I am always right, it’s even better when the others are wrong. »
his wife and mine became really good friends, she often talked with my wife about divorcing him, however she makes a tenth of the money he does, he fully paid their multimillion dollars home in upscale neighborhoo, she owns nothing. He created a full state of dependence for his wife and she is trapped them with 2 kids with an overly exigent husband that forces her to publish 4 scientific papers yearly. She has been getting into fights with her research assistants because she has been pressurized so much lately by him. His parents take care of their 2 young kids 90% of the time so they can train and do their research.

I've seen too many Datelines of this scenario.
 
Good news for Tesla:


'Average price of a new car is about $40,000'
I view it as a good thing for consumers when an industry is in transition. Buy used so as to avoid getting stuck with an expensive vehicle that may have no resale value at some unknown point in the future. With Tesla at only 2% of US sales a hot used market has weak impact.
 
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I disagreed only because I think many people, in this context Elon also, tend to misconstrue what a moat was ever for. It is factual to state that medieval moats were not the only line fo defense. They were a deterrent and acted to make invasion more difficult. Specifically we have been discussing the role fo Superchargers as a sustainable conpetitive advantage, so the shorthand for such is 'moat'. No sane person will argue that pace of innovation is fundamental. Actually the Supercharger network and it's continuing innovation with faster speeds, urban Superchargers, gigantic installations with amenities and so on is proof of a continuing innovative approach. Rather than quibble about shorthand we should focus on factual demonstrated rapid pace of innovation.

Once we do that we can think of the near-certain advent of Supercharger battery installations themselves acting as wholesale market participants with Autobidder, larger sites with significant solar installations themselves and so on. Tesla has just barely begin that process. Utility licenses already issued are forward indicators.

So, yes, many of us will use the word 'moat' to indication things with rapid continuing innovation that competitors are largely ignoring!
Elon's audience for that quote is as much Tesla's internal team as for investors. Elon has always emphasized that any specific technology advantage is only temporary. Even self-driving is going to be only a temporary advantage. He doesn't want Tesla itself to think of any 'moat' as a fixed defense. And he's absolutely right that looking for 'moat' (in the Warren Buffet sense of durable advantage) is misguided.

But you have a point that the word 'moat' is appropriate in a different sense. A moat is a temporary, soft defense that just slows an invader a little bit until your own army can join the fight. What wins the war is ultimately the strength of your army, but having a moat in the way just gives you a little bit of extra time to get your ranks in order. Supercharging, in this sense, is indeed a 'moat' against EVs from traditional automakers, a soft, temporary advantage that buys time for Tesla's engineers and factories to implement the next big innovation.
 
Munros New ID4 review just out:
WOW: He really digs into VW: He actually gets furious with the navigation. He couldn't get it to work.

It is becomming clear that Munro is suffering from Tesla withdrawal syndrome, specifically re. tech.
Pre-Tesla the ID4 might have gotten a better review from, but now he finds the UI to be slow, UN-intuitive and outright annoying. He reaches peak irritation when it turns out that the map he spent precious minutes trying to get working is available, but only using voice commands: "I asked for the damn thing to turn on the map, but I didn't address it properly!" Dripping with scorn.
Once you go Tesla...
 
Tesla has increased the value of the SC network over the last 4-5 years and now has as of 4Q report 23,277 connectors at 2,564 stations... the value of the network = 542M

your post adds a key point to the value statement above .... it is not just the number of network nodes that matters ... but where they are located which helps create the Moat.... i watched the Munro Live video where he charges a VW at the Electrify America charger and i was LMAO .... he is an Automotive Engineer and he could not take it ... a few charging interactions like that and buyers remorse will set in .... also how easy the node it to interact with at the UI ....
here is link to video
in case you missed it this is a friction filled transaction :D

Sandy Quote"the best part of the whole trip was the coffee"
I saw that video too and Sandy seems a bit impatient and almost looking for something to gripe about. I'm not trying to carry water for the public charging infrastructure as it's woefully broken. However, the vast majority of public charging EV owners have nothing to compare it to. And that's why Sandy rightfully was annoyed. He knows how it should work and can work.

If you ask the non-Tesla road warriors, some will tell you that it's superior to the Supercharger Network and that the SC's were a mistake all along. The public chargers are more plentiful and powerful they will proclaim. It's more of the cognitive dissonance discussed earlier. Until they've done a 1,000 mile weekend in a Tesla, they have no idea how pathetic their road trip anxiety doesn't need to be.
But I think they deserve what Ortho's stubborn mentor will suffer and that is, let them learn from their mistakes. If they refuse to open their eyes, I can't make them see.
 
Munros New ID4 review just out:
WOW: He really digs into VW: He actually gets furious with the navigation. He couldn't get it to work.

It is becomming clear that Munro is suffering from Tesla withdrawal syndrome, specifically re. tech.
Pre-Tesla the ID4 might have gotten a better review from, but now he finds the UI to be slow, UN-intuitive and outright annoying. He reaches peak irritation when it turns out that the map he spent precious minutes trying to get working is available, but only using voice commands: "I asked for the damn thing to turn on the map, but I didn't address it properly!" Dripping with scorn.
Once you go Tesla...

I watched the video and what I don't get is that, like Sandy, I see no way to get to maps without using your voice. Did VW really not provide any other way to get to the maps/navigation other than voice?
 
Elon's audience for that quote is as much Tesla's internal team as for investors. Elon has always emphasized that any specific technology advantage is only temporary. Even self-driving is going to be only a temporary advantage. He doesn't want Tesla itself to think of any 'moat' as a fixed defense. And he's absolutely right that looking for 'moat' (in the Warren Buffet sense of durable advantage) is misguided.

But you have a point that the word 'moat' is appropriate in a different sense. A moat is a temporary, soft defense that just slows an invader a little bit until your own army can join the fight. What wins the war is ultimately the strength of your army, but having a moat in the way just gives you a little bit of extra time to get your ranks in order. Supercharging, in this sense, is indeed a 'moat' against EVs from traditional automakers, a soft, temporary advantage that buys time for Tesla's engineers and factories to implement the next big innovation.
The idea behind a moat, and for that matter a castle, is that it buys time. The three traditional ways to defeat a castle are: 1) Starve them out (deny capital in Tesla's case). 2) Offer the inhabitants good terms if they will just leave (purchase the company when small in Tesla's case). 3) Do a full frontal attack with no quarter asked or given. #1 and #2 have failed spectacularly. Legacy industry is now betting on #3 but it appears winter is coming and they won't be able to sustain the effort long enough.

EDIT: There's one other way: Sneak someone in or pay someone to defect. Rivan and Russia have already tried that.
 
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The idea behind a moat, and for that matter a castle, is that it buys time. The three traditional ways to defeat a castle are: 1) Starve them out (deny capital in Tesla's case). 2) Offer the inhabitants good terms if they will just leave (purchase the company when small in Tesla's case). 3) Do a full frontal attack with no quarter asked or given. #1 and #2 have failed spectacularly. Legacy industry is now betting on #3 but it appears winter is coming and they won't be able to sustain the effort long enough.
And lest we forget, Tesla has access to dragons.

Munros New ID4 review just out:
WOW: He really digs into VW: He actually gets furious with the navigation. He couldn't get it to work.

It is becomming clear that Munro is suffering from Tesla withdrawal syndrome, specifically re. tech.
Pre-Tesla the ID4 might have gotten a better review from, but now he finds the UI to be slow, UN-intuitive and outright annoying. He reaches peak irritation when it turns out that the map he spent precious minutes trying to get working is available, but only using voice commands: "I asked for the damn thing to turn on the map, but I didn't address it properly!" Dripping with scorn.
Once you go Tesla...
That's a big problem for legacy. Once you experience the best, what once would be tolerable for you becomes frustrating. Look how long it took Android/Samsung to match IOS.
 
I'm back from a two week "vacation" (don't talk about the Darien Gap)

I feel like forum activity has slowed a bit over the last few months.

Has everyone moved on to $DOGEclub.com forums?


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I watched the video and what I don't get is that, like Sandy, I see no way to get to maps without using your voice. Did VW really not provide any other way to get to the maps/navigation other than voice?
I don't know what they were thinking.

The whole time watching Sandy trying to get the map and navigation to work was like watching a guy used to working on a labtop with Word being forced to write using an old-school manual typewriter! It was both funny and also sad.
It is also remarkable to just pause and let it resonate what Tesla has achieved. They took a large laptop screen and put it in a car. That was totally novel back in 2012. They iterated and improved, and by the time of the model 3, a traditional car guy at Munro's age could just get in the car and knew very quickly how it worked and how to use it to get what he wanted.
We have to stop and pause and marvel at the level of that design achievement.

Tesla succeeded in a way that makes Tesla a de-facto benchmark: Re-gen, acceleration, battery longevity, the integrated customer exeperince tying the UI to the placement of the chargers, and much more. Tesla set the standard.

VW should make a study of this video and force their UI design team to watch it!
 
I don't know what they were thinking.

The whole time watching Sandy trying to get the map and navigation to work was like watching a guy used to working on a labtop with Word being forced to write using an old-school manual typewriter! It was both funny and also sad.
It is also remarkable to just pause and let it resonate what Tesla has achieved. They took a large laptop screen and put it in a car. That was totally novel back in 2012. They iterated and improved, and by the time of the model 3, a traditional car guy at Munro's age could just get in the car and knew very quickly how it worked and how to use it to get what he wanted.
We have to stop and pause and marvel at the level of that design achievement.

Tesla succeeded in a way that makes Tesla a de-facto benchmark: Re-gen, acceleration, battery longevity, the integrated customer exeperince tying the UI to the placement of the chargers, and much more. Tesla set the standard.

VW should make a study of this video and force their UI design team to watch it!
And Tesla could have another income stream: Royalties from the UI design.