Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Nocturnal]

Well, Skynet is on our side at least.

This robot-run fund loaded up on Tesla because it thinks the stock will soar. It's been right before.

An exchange-traded fund driven by artificial intelligence has just loaded up on shares in Tesla — and it has a history of correctly predicting the stock’s...

www.marketwatch.com

 

[dl003]

I have no problems holding. Hell, it can go down to 300 for all I care. If I judge a stock so wrongly, then I deserve to only triple my money, right?
My concern is how do you tell when you're holding out of
1. A principle
2. Confidence in your understanding of the fundamentals
3. Stubbornness
or
4. Paralysis by changes?
Maybe we each have a little bit of all of the above in us?

 

[Discoducky]

I called E*TRADE and within five days they lowered my rate from nearly 9% down to 1.95%. Definitely worth a call.

As recommended by fellow TMC members I referenced the interactive brokerage rates. You can find them online but they’re around 1.6%.

Agreed, just call them and ask. If you have a substantial investment with them it is in their best interest to come down to something close to 2%.

Also, in other news, I got margin called by etrade on my LOC (line of credit). It was no worries as I had cash and securities I could add to the account, but let's not forget that it is not fun to get *THAT* call.

I can't wait for the tide to shift back to green days, Plaid shipping and first cars rolling out of Berlin and Austin.

 

[Cherry Wine]

I have no problem holding. Hell, it can go down to 300 for all I care. If I judge a stock so wrongly, then I deserve to only triple my money, right?
My concern is how do you tell when you're holding out of
1. A principle
2. Confidence in your understanding of the fundamentals
3. Stubbornness
or
4. Paralysis by changes?
Maybe we each have a little bit of all of the above in us?

This seems relevant (from this morning) - Dave Lee and Emmett Peppers discussing bear arguments.

 

[joh01652]

I'm reading a superb book right now on short selling, titled, "Naked, Short and Greedy: Wall Street's Failure to Deliver," by Dr. Susanne Trimbath. The author received her Ph.D. in economics from New York University, and has worked at the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, the Depository Trust Company (a subsidiary of the Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation) and the Milken Institute (yes, the one-and-only Michael "Junk Bond" MIlken).

She lays out clearly in plain language the core problem in today's markets: the failure to provide secure, guaranteed final settlement for trades.

I think this book could be very valuable to anyone who holds securities of any kind in a U.S. brokerage account. For those of us on TMC who don't fully understand the chatter about short selling, settlement failures and share lending, this book should help.

 

[cricketman]

The overall tech drop is a macro event driven by inflation risk and a re-opening pivot... that accounts for ~5-7% of the drop. Not the remaining ~20%. Yeah Tesla usually moves with a multiple, but other factors are hitting the stock beyond the macro.

I am not so sure. My Square stock has also dropped 30%, PTON even more (although they had big recall issues). COIN is down 40%, Palantir 50%

Apple was down 10% at one point and Amazon 15%

The higher the PE ratio, the more stocks have dropped, this has happened across the tech market

Yes there is also a re-opening pivot like you say, as during covid-19, investors used tech as a safe haven, and now they are putting it back into old value stocks which I am not so sure is a good idea.... it all depends how much we go back to our old habits, but you can't blame investors for doing this, again they are hunting for easy profits, like we all are.

You have to pick your strategy and stick with it unless new information comes that means your old strategy was either wrong or no longer relevant.

I don't want Tesla to become a traditional company in regards to communication with Elon only saying what shareholders expect from him. The moment they do that is the moment I sell my shares.

 

[joh01652]

So I learned I don't actually "own" TSLA shares, at least in the sense that we consider owning something in everyday language (like, how "I own my car," or "I own my clothes"). Read the fine print on your margin account application (page 15, "Add Options Trading and Margin to your Account," for Schwab clients). By opening an account with your broker, you have agreed to loan your securities to your broker at their whim and calling, whenever they feel like, without notifying you. Also, while "your" shares are out on loan, even though you get proxy instructions to vote in corporate elections, those shares voting power goes to the party currently lending your shares. Also, when your shares are being lent, the broker of course receives interest payment for lending, and is incentivized to keep the loan going for as long as possible, while you receive nothing, hahaha, not even your dividends.

You can't make this stuff up, it's all in the fine print.

Here it is from Schwab:

8. Loan Consent. You agree that Securities and Other Property held
in your margin account, now or in the future, may be borrowed (either
separately or together with the property of others) by us (acting
as principal) or by others. You agree that Schwab may receive and
retain certain benefits (including, but not limited to, interest on
collateral posted for such loans) to which you will not be entitled. You
acknowledge that in certain circumstances, such borrowings could
limit your ability to exercise voting rights or receive dividends, in whole
or in part, with respect to the Securities and Other Property lent. You
understand that for Securities and Other Property that are lent by
Schwab, the dividends paid on such Securities and Other Property
will go to the borrower. No compensation or other reimbursements will
be due to you in connection with such borrowings. However, if you are
allocated a substitute payment in lieu of dividends, you understand that
such a payment may not be entitled to the same tax treatment as may
have been applied to the receipt of a dividend. You agree that Schwab
is not required to compensate you for any differential tax treatment
between dividends and payments in lieu of dividends. Schwab may
allocate payments in lieu of dividends by any mechanism permitted by
law, including by using a lottery allocation system.

 

[Singuy]

Tesla really need some people can communicate better because this BTC drama just came from miscommunication.

"Since Teslas involvement with BTC, the energy usage for BTC mining has increased substantially. The flood in China which knocked down the coal Power plant have proved to attribute a good portion of btc mining to coal and not clean energy. Lastly there are now evidence of decommissioned coal power plants coming online for BTC mining after our involvement. Due to all these factors, Tesla will suspend the transaction of BTC until energy usage for BTC mining decrease substantially and become more clean."

Done..don't have to explain anything on Twitter and makes it seem like you didn't do your research or backtracking.

 

[henchman24]

I am not so sure. My Square stock has also dropped 30%, PTON even more (although they had big recall issues). COIN is down 40%, Palantir 50%

Apple was down 10% at one point and Amazon 15%

The higher the PE ratio, the more stocks have dropped, this has happened across the tech market

Yes there is also a re-opening pivot like you say, as during covid-19, investors used tech as a safe haven, and now they are putting it back into old value stocks which I am not so sure is a good idea.... it all depends how much we go back to our old habits, but you can't blame investors for doing this, again they are hunting for easy profits, like we all are.

You have to pick your strategy and stick with it unless new information comes that means your old strategy was either wrong or no longer relevant.

I don't want Tesla to become a traditional company in regards to communication with Elon only saying what shareholders expect from him. The moment they do that is the moment I sell my shares.

SQ and COIN have obvious connections to crypto that are impacting the stock (also impacting TSLA). PLTR is too early to have much of a record of how it moves, but is a stock many would love to see fail. If this was simply just a tech/inflation drop, even with a multiple TSLA would have held up better. Crypto hatred by institutional investors, noise around it, S/X delays, Q1 earnings under expectations, FSD and subscription getting delayed, disappointing China April numbers... I think these are all adding to the drop. We will see if that is the case soon though as these things get crossed off the list and they'd cause a jump if they are currently a drag.

 

[buttershrimp]

I called E*TRADE and within five days they lowered my rate from nearly 9% down to 1.95%. Definitely worth a call.

As recommended by fellow TMC members I referenced the interactive brokerage rates. You can find them online but they’re around 1.6%.

Sorry I meant the requirements and not the interest rate!

 

[henchman24]

Tesla really need some people can communicate better because this BTC drama just came from miscommunication.

"Since Teslas involvement with BTC, the energy usage for BTC mining has increased substantially. The flood in China which knocked down the coal Power plant have proved to attribute a good portion of btc mining to coal and not clean energy. Lastly there are now evidence of decommissioned coal power plants coming online for BTC mining after our involvement. Due to all these factors, Tesla will suspend the transaction of BTC until energy usage for BTC mining decrease substantially and become more clean."

Done..don't have to explain anything on Twitter and makes it seem like you didn't do your research or backtracking.

This is the argument for a PR department right here. I'm still not on board with that thought yet, but as the days go by and these simple mistakes keep happening... I'm losing more of my conviction against a PR dept.

 

[Nocturnal]

This is the argument for a PR department right here. I'm still not on board with that thought yet, but as the days go by and these simple mistakes keep happening... I'm losing more of my conviction against a PR dept.

We don't even need a PR department. God forbid Elon dictates a few things to an intern and they write up a quick blurb to post on the website before Elon randomly blows up an entire market.

 

[elasalle]

Shuffled 6 Jan 22 1200's (at loss) to 3 Jun23 700's. Waiting patiently.
Jan 22 1400 CC sold for 100$ +, are < $10 now

 

[FireMedic]

Sorry I meant the requirements and not the interest rate!

With E*TRADE for TSLA it’s currently 40%. But be careful, the higher the SP goes the higher the margin maintenance requirement is.

I prefer to stay near 5-7% margin. This has increased as the SP has fallen though. Making it difficult to ‘buy the dip’. I’ll probably trim a bit once the SP recovers. That’s what I did last year.

 

[Singuy]

This is the argument for a PR department right here. I'm still not on board with that thought yet, but as the days go by and these simple mistakes keep happening... I'm losing more of my conviction against a PR dept.

You just need someone..like Zac, who can articulate the situation with English that makes sense. There just needs to establish a cause and an affect. Not rocket science here. Twitter is impossible to follow as you just see random post without proper context unless you read the entire chain, which people don't. Don't use Twitter to explain market moving actions.

 

[joh01652]

So if share price dilution from all these phantom shares isn't bad enough, another big problem with settlement failures is that it results in "over-voting"--the musical chairs just keep spinning round and round and where they settle nobody knows, so that when it comes time for you to vote in corporate elections, your broker (who is the true owner of your shares and keeps them in a sort of trust for you for safe keeping ), gives you and anybody else who lent your shares proxy voting instructions. So, okay, you vote and submit your vote to your broker, and so did all the other lenders of your shares (presumably)--but there is a utility in the financial voting system that says, "Whoa, Company A only has 100 shares, there can't be more than 100 votes." So someone's vote doesn't get counted. Is it yours? Mine? Who knows, because shares aren't settled. So your broker has to adjust it's vote count, BUT NOT WITHOUT CORRECTING FOR THE TRUE HOLDER OF THOSE SHARES FIRST.

So at the end of the day whose vote is truly getting counted?

This is a monstrous breach of fiduciary duty by the DTCC not only to public companies but also to individual shareholders.

 

[Dutchie]

So this will be week like the last couple of weeks? Mon-Tues-Wed-Thu =red. Friday = green?

 

[AimStellar]

Dr. Michael Burry’s recent 13F filing (from today) lists 40% of his portfolio as a TSLA short position

 

[buttershrimp]

With E*TRADE for TSLA it’s currently 40%. But be careful, the higher the SP goes the higher the margin maintenance requirement is.

I prefer to stay near 5-7% margin. This has increased as the SP has fallen though. Making it difficult to ‘buy the dip’. I’ll probably trim a bit once the SP recovers. That’s what I did last year.

Thanks, what is the initial margin requirment? 50%

 

[mblakele]

GMP’s Pioneering Network of Powerwall Batteries Delivers First-in-New-England Benefit for Customers & Grid, Cutting Carbon and Costs - Green Mountain Power

GMP’s pioneering new Frequency Regulation Pilot program allows customers to share stored energy with regional grid operator ISO-New England (ISO-NE) to keep a steady, regulated flow of energy on the grid at all times.

greenmountainpower.com

Vermont’s GMP utility is partnering with Tesla to pilot the use of Powerwalls for grid balancing, using Autobidder. Eventually this kind of thing should raise the profile of Tesla Energy, leading to higher price targets.